πŸ› οΈ

Strike Team #1

Last Edited Time
Apr 27, 2022
Created time
Nov 11, 2021
Participants
Created By
Type
Strike Team
Created
Nov 11, 2021
Zoom Recording
Property
Property 1
Attendees: Sam, Ido, Isaac, Zargham, Eyal, Josh
Observers: Luke
Goals
  • Identify team strengths and expertise (introductions)
  • Resolve discussions around scope + "minimal DAO"
  • Identify relevant related work
  • Identify team needs (incl. resource needs)
  • Identify target milestones
  • Prepare presentation for Nov. 26
Discussion Items
Introductions
🌹 Josh: mathematician, category theorist, familiar with game theory, law, AI. ROSE
🐱 Sam: coding as a child, e-commerce sector, started a DAO framework with a friend, got hired at EF and worked several years there, chase implementation of the Ethereum node. Joined Aragon as a software engineer because we knew Jorge pretty well, now head of tech research. Deep into zk-rollup and optimistic rollups. Recent weeks: architect of Aragon v2 contracts. CATS
🍫 Ido: researcher at DAOstack, previously in deep learning, got introduced to crypto world in 2017, background mainly technical, write solidity code, research industry + products. CHOCOLATE
πŸŽ† Isaac: semiconductors, crypto, worked on DID + DID foundation + w3c, last year focusing mostly on DAOs, focusign on moloch. adaptors for moloch (minions), connecting to Gnosis as well. A lot of stuff on DAO composability. Main work is on Minty: manage real-world tokenized assets. Want to help with DAO visibility. ERC-20 + ERC-721 as DAO visibility API standards. FIREWORK
Luke: verification systems, develoepr, working with Metagov.
⚫ Zargham: studied systems theory, dynamic estimation, distributed sensor fusion, Block Science, contributor to Gitcoin DAO, TEC, Commons Stack, Metagov. BLACK RASPBERRY
πŸ‘« Eyal: founder at DeepDAO, developer at Apple, activist, participant in decentralized communities, saw how they deteriorated to small group power structures. There's so much innovation in the DAO space; we're chasing it. filmmaker, developer, reluctant CEO. GOOD COMPANY
What are the minimal features of a DAO?
  • Eyal: People managing assets together. People making a decision, code executed it. Then governance came, and things became complicated. So what is the connection between the decision + the execution of that decision? Snapshot is great; but the signal is very weak. Still better than everything else, because it's transparent. But I would like to quantify the relationship between the decision + the execution.
  • Zargham presents diagram (pasted in here:
Link to Lucid:
Link to Lucid:
  • Zargham: we need to be careful about what of these can actually be standardized +🍫🌹
  • Sam: membership, decision-making, execution
  • Sam: we're building / organizing membership modules, rules, groups, for v2 very in line with the above. "____" primitive, can combine those primitives together in a logical workflow, so they can go through the entire flow (and then there's an abstract execution layer), can also interact on a multichain basis via one deployed DAO. Also there's dispute resolution, escrow contracts.
  • Isaac: trying to do a technical implementation of all those things might be misguided; a ref standard not right for now.
    • Can we always query membership shares?
    • What is the contract address of the things doing execution on-chain.
  • Ido: questionβ€” if I think of any DAO as a state machine, then the states need to be somehow repesented. So we should agree on what defines state. Shouldn't we start with what the bojects. How do you make a DAO explorer?
    • Sam: great idea, but it's too easy to break . might get problematic. some will implement them and some will not. Think we need to standardize some decision-making primitives.
      • Zargham: if we take a data structures-like , there are really strong incentives in order to get listed on services or on exchanges. So the enforcers of this are the indexers. and since this is an ADDITIVE design rather than forcing them to change their functionality, since they will be incentivized to be listed.
        • Sam: yes, we need incentive to do this. But for a product-oriented company like Aragon to be incentivized to do this, the entry point of normies has to be DeepDAO or Boardroom and THEN we have an incentive to do this.
        • Eyal: we get tons of listing requests from new platforms; so many people do want to be on exchanges.
          • Zargham: we can't have execution standards without read standards!
            • Josh: agree but we need
              • Zargham: execution nature of that could be standardized in a relatively similar way as the read standards. Wrapper.
                • Sam: we have a lot of ideas, but I think we can also ask ourselves; to take a human-centered approach; who is the target user of this. What pain point? Approach it from this, we can maybe bring more. From an engineering perspective:
                  • Zargham: non-standardization of membership + proposals is you have to learn the bureacratic structure over and over. not all of that can be standardized but having a standard rep would be useful. For a dao contributor or a multi-dao contributor that would be very useful. "Readability of the nature of the mechanism through which you execute". +1 πŸŒ‡
                  • Eyal: absolutely agree, far from being standardized across the industry.
      • Zargham: focusing on the Membership state is not necessarily the same in every DAO, but the concept exists. Suppose I have a DAO that is based on holdership of an NFT. So the concept of membership may fluctuate. But to standardize it, you would need a membership method that is effectively a whitelist, but they can define the mechanisms by which that whitelist is filled. When I think of standards for DAOs, I think of DAO visibility as well; DAO read. 3-5 things that are legible for all DAOs. Leave it free for DAO frameworks to produce converters.
        • Sam: membershipValidator standard :))
        • Ido: method to get all active proposals?
      • Eyal: in deepdao, I spend all my time: saying need the list of members, the list of votes, the status of the votes, which code is executed or not, and if it happens what's the reward. A document that I can point out and say, do this, that would be very helpful for us specifically.
        • Membership
  • Eyal: would it also make sense to add treasury? Decisions are concrete; they're about work. But there are also decisions about protocols. And signaling decisions, about norms. Do we also want to standardize this?
  • Zargham: maybe, could have categories of decisions, would enable certain patterns. But to get to that point, you would have to standardize more stuff.
  • What concrete use-cases or problems should the standard solve?
  • What should our DAO look like?
Action Items
Housekeeping
Do we keep using Notion?
Team telegram
Schedule
Create reading list
Add to reading list
Β 
πŸ› οΈ

Strike Team #1

Last Edited Time
Apr 27, 2022
Created time
Nov 11, 2021
Participants
Created By
Type
Strike Team
Created
Nov 11, 2021
Zoom Recording
Property
Property 1
Attendees: Sam, Ido, Isaac, Zargham, Eyal, Josh
Observers: Luke
Goals
  • Identify team strengths and expertise (introductions)
  • Resolve discussions around scope + "minimal DAO"
  • Identify relevant related work
  • Identify team needs (incl. resource needs)
  • Identify target milestones
  • Prepare presentation for Nov. 26
Discussion Items
Introductions
🌹 Josh: mathematician, category theorist, familiar with game theory, law, AI. ROSE
🐱 Sam: coding as a child, e-commerce sector, started a DAO framework with a friend, got hired at EF and worked several years there, chase implementation of the Ethereum node. Joined Aragon as a software engineer because we knew Jorge pretty well, now head of tech research. Deep into zk-rollup and optimistic rollups. Recent weeks: architect of Aragon v2 contracts. CATS
🍫 Ido: researcher at DAOstack, previously in deep learning, got introduced to crypto world in 2017, background mainly technical, write solidity code, research industry + products. CHOCOLATE
πŸŽ† Isaac: semiconductors, crypto, worked on DID + DID foundation + w3c, last year focusing mostly on DAOs, focusign on moloch. adaptors for moloch (minions), connecting to Gnosis as well. A lot of stuff on DAO composability. Main work is on Minty: manage real-world tokenized assets. Want to help with DAO visibility. ERC-20 + ERC-721 as DAO visibility API standards. FIREWORK
Luke: verification systems, develoepr, working with Metagov.
⚫ Zargham: studied systems theory, dynamic estimation, distributed sensor fusion, Block Science, contributor to Gitcoin DAO, TEC, Commons Stack, Metagov. BLACK RASPBERRY
πŸ‘« Eyal: founder at DeepDAO, developer at Apple, activist, participant in decentralized communities, saw how they deteriorated to small group power structures. There's so much innovation in the DAO space; we're chasing it. filmmaker, developer, reluctant CEO. GOOD COMPANY
What are the minimal features of a DAO?
  • Eyal: People managing assets together. People making a decision, code executed it. Then governance came, and things became complicated. So what is the connection between the decision + the execution of that decision? Snapshot is great; but the signal is very weak. Still better than everything else, because it's transparent. But I would like to quantify the relationship between the decision + the execution.
  • Zargham presents diagram (pasted in here:
Link to Lucid:
Link to Lucid:
  • Zargham: we need to be careful about what of these can actually be standardized +🍫🌹
  • Sam: membership, decision-making, execution
  • Sam: we're building / organizing membership modules, rules, groups, for v2 very in line with the above. "____" primitive, can combine those primitives together in a logical workflow, so they can go through the entire flow (and then there's an abstract execution layer), can also interact on a multichain basis via one deployed DAO. Also there's dispute resolution, escrow contracts.
  • Isaac: trying to do a technical implementation of all those things might be misguided; a ref standard not right for now.
    • Can we always query membership shares?
    • What is the contract address of the things doing execution on-chain.
  • Ido: questionβ€” if I think of any DAO as a state machine, then the states need to be somehow repesented. So we should agree on what defines state. Shouldn't we start with what the bojects. How do you make a DAO explorer?
    • Sam: great idea, but it's too easy to break . might get problematic. some will implement them and some will not. Think we need to standardize some decision-making primitives.
      • Zargham: if we take a data structures-like , there are really strong incentives in order to get listed on services or on exchanges. So the enforcers of this are the indexers. and since this is an ADDITIVE design rather than forcing them to change their functionality, since they will be incentivized to be listed.
        • Sam: yes, we need incentive to do this. But for a product-oriented company like Aragon to be incentivized to do this, the entry point of normies has to be DeepDAO or Boardroom and THEN we have an incentive to do this.
        • Eyal: we get tons of listing requests from new platforms; so many people do want to be on exchanges.
          • Zargham: we can't have execution standards without read standards!
            • Josh: agree but we need
              • Zargham: execution nature of that could be standardized in a relatively similar way as the read standards. Wrapper.
                • Sam: we have a lot of ideas, but I think we can also ask ourselves; to take a human-centered approach; who is the target user of this. What pain point? Approach it from this, we can maybe bring more. From an engineering perspective:
                  • Zargham: non-standardization of membership + proposals is you have to learn the bureacratic structure over and over. not all of that can be standardized but having a standard rep would be useful. For a dao contributor or a multi-dao contributor that would be very useful. "Readability of the nature of the mechanism through which you execute". +1 πŸŒ‡
                  • Eyal: absolutely agree, far from being standardized across the industry.
      • Zargham: focusing on the Membership state is not necessarily the same in every DAO, but the concept exists. Suppose I have a DAO that is based on holdership of an NFT. So the concept of membership may fluctuate. But to standardize it, you would need a membership method that is effectively a whitelist, but they can define the mechanisms by which that whitelist is filled. When I think of standards for DAOs, I think of DAO visibility as well; DAO read. 3-5 things that are legible for all DAOs. Leave it free for DAO frameworks to produce converters.
        • Sam: membershipValidator standard :))
        • Ido: method to get all active proposals?
      • Eyal: in deepdao, I spend all my time: saying need the list of members, the list of votes, the status of the votes, which code is executed or not, and if it happens what's the reward. A document that I can point out and say, do this, that would be very helpful for us specifically.
        • Membership
  • Eyal: would it also make sense to add treasury? Decisions are concrete; they're about work. But there are also decisions about protocols. And signaling decisions, about norms. Do we also want to standardize this?
  • Zargham: maybe, could have categories of decisions, would enable certain patterns. But to get to that point, you would have to standardize more stuff.
  • What concrete use-cases or problems should the standard solve?
  • What should our DAO look like?
Action Items
Housekeeping
Do we keep using Notion?
Team telegram
Schedule
Create reading list
Add to reading list
Β