Episode 34: Madame CultLeader | Wonderverse -Fostering Inclusive Web3 Communities
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Madame Cult Leader
Timestamps and Transcripts from MadameCultLeader | Fostering Inclusive Web3 Communities - Wonderverse by Cisco#7413
Timestamps
00:00 - 00:44 - Intro
00:44 - 01:33 - Guest Introduction
01:33 - 02:45 - En’s Journey into web3
02:45 - 09:19 - Pre-web3 Journey
11:00 - 15-18 - What is Wonderverse
16:53 - 20:56 - What is lacking in the project management space
22:19 - 27:47 - The Towers Three
27:51 - 33:36 - Bridge between Towers Three and Wonderverse
33:38 - 37:25 - En’s view on Physical and mental health
37:26 - 38:00 - 0utro
TRANSCRIPT
Humptycalderon: Welcome to Crypto Sapiens, a show that hosts lively discussions with innovative web3 builders. To help you learn about decentralised money systems, including Ethereum, Bitcoin, and Defi. The podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only, and it is not financial advice. Cryptos Sapiens is presented in partnership with BanklessDAO. A movement for pioneers seeking freedom from the limitations of the traditional financial system.BanklessDAO will help the world go Bankless by creating user-friendly on-ramps for people to discover decentralised financial technologies through education, media, and culture.
GM everyone. And welcome back to another episode of crypto Sapiens. Today, we are talking with En, head of community at wonderverse, a web3 project management system for DAOs and dOrgs and a member of the Towers Three, an initiative where they practice long form writing about the web3 ecosystem and DE&I organizing and describes themselves as a queer black translator in a technical industry and seeks to create space for others like them.
We begin our conversation with an overview of En's previous work in chemistry and neuroscience and the DE&I initiatives they established at their previous company. They continue to make an impact in the web3 space today by helping to onboard and empower marginalised communities. We also discuss identity, trust and mental health.
There's so much to discover in this episode. So without further ado let's get started.En: So my name again is En. My pronouns are they/them and I'm currently the head of community at wonderverse. It's @wonderverse_xyz and over there, I'm building a community. And the product is web3 project management system for DAOs and dOrgs, meaning digital organisations.
And, I'm also working on the Towers Three, which is just me trying to do more long form writing with friends, and doing some DEI organising and web3. And I'm also starting to become more of a contributor to Colonel, which is like a web3 learning journey.
So I'm gonna be helping, I think, with the Colonel block seven, different community metrics, kind of applications, that sort of thing. So I'm excited to contribute there. And also in my history, I was a big part of building web3 baddies, which is no longer as active. I think I kind of like moved on from that community, but, yeah, that was a big part of my introduction to building web3 community.
Humptycalderon: Oh, that's amazing. So it just seems like you are plugged into so many different areas of web3 from your introduction. I got, you know, you're helping to build out a product that is here to serve the web3 community to make organisation, coordination, collaboration, much more user friendly. And we'll go through that too, because it certainly isn't most of the time. I'm also hearing you are taking that voice, that platform that you've developed to kind of reach out to new audiences to let them know, "Hey, there are people like you here and we're building and we're strong" right? And this is our road too, right. This is our path to success.
And then Colonel, which, by the way I know some about it, but not enough. So I'm gonna really probably quiz you on that. So I get to learn more about what that is and what your role is gonna be there. And then just generally your writing, which I really am excited to really dive into that.
So, before we get started though, there's a bit more to your backstory that I want to explore, and that is what you were doing pre-web3. Do you mind sharing the work you were doing and maybe why you left that and how web3 became visible to you while you were doing that.
En: So, I graduated from a small liberal arts college in 2017 with a degree in chemistry and a minor in neuroscience.
And also in college, I did a lot of, you know, private voice lessons, acapella singing, a lot of humanities, I took like higher level English courses. I took economics a bit, different humanities courses. So I had like this really beautifully, well rounded, like college experience, but my focus was on chemistry and neuroscience.
So post graduation, I worked at chemical manufacturing facility, where I was doing organic chemistry for like very high value, they called them deuterated chemical compounds, which just means like the things that we were synthesising had different. It's too complicated. Anyway, basically, we were doing really complex chemistry, very sensitive air sensitive, chemistry.
So that was a really cool experience. And it was like, I'd work with a container that costs like $20,000. so if you drop it uh oh. But yeah, so I did that and then I moved on from that company and I worked at a company for concrete and cement technologies for 3 years. And there I was doing R and D but also analytical chemistry.
And then I moved into kind of a, it's almost like customer support, but very technical customer support where I basically helped customers diagnose issues with their product, on the more chemical end. And then I went to a biotech company and that was my last role within the chemical world. And I was doing automation, biological automation stuff.
And, It's interesting because during my tenure in science, as a scientist, I was always doing like DEI work. And in a way that was almost like workplace organising. Right? I was always like looking for allies, looking for people who were like me, looking for people who thought like me, I'm trying to build more spaces for people within this kind of like very, hegemonic, very homogeneous kind of science world I was existing in. And so I developed that company , that did cement and concrete technologies, I developed a global diverse inclusion program just on the side. I didn't realise the value I had created. I probably should have gotten paid a lot more for doing that, but again, I was young, so yeah.
So I kind of was doing this community building thing, but in the science world, you don't have community building, right. That's not a thing that exists. So then I think late 2019, early 2020 I started exploring crypto actually, because a friend, childhood friend was like, oh, you need to check this out and I'd heard of it but I was like, you know, I also was the barrier of like the Chad's or this, homogenous kind of culture blocked me right. In a similar way that I was afraid of going into science. I was also afraid of like exploring web3, but I kind of had to like get over that fear and just say, Hey, just explore, see what it is.
And I saw the potential quite quickly, but also saw that no one saw the vision I saw. so that makes any sense. No one saw how my lived experience shaped what I saw the technology's potential to be. And I saw no one talking about it. And then to just kind of wrap up the chemistry story. The reason I left was because I didn't feel valued. Even though I had been promoted super quickly. I was like the youngest person in many of the rooms I existed in. I was the only person with a PhD and master's, and I was delivering really high quality, valuable science work, but I didn't feel belonging. I didn't feel cared about. I didn't feel like I could see myself there for the rest of my life.
I just didn't see it. And it's sad because, you know, I was just really successful queer black scientist. Right, queer black trans scientist. But again, I was just like it's too soon for me to be here. Right? Maybe in 20, 40 years, I could have been only a scientist that only thought about science, but I felt like the universe, my spirit, my, you know, ancestors calling saying, there's more important work that you need to do in this lifetime.
And that work is helping other people, right. Helping other people with getting their rights, helping other people feeling included and belonging. So being a leader is what I felt called to do. And I didn't think that I would be accepted as like a black leader in science. That just was the truth. So then I realised kind of like being a strategic, opportunistic, strategic person, I was like, web3 is so new and I'm so smart not to toot my own horn, that I can become an expert in a matter of months.
I looked at the leaders of web3 and I said, yeah, I can learn. And I can be better. So that meant if I invest this time, then I can be the queer black trans leader that I deserve to be within a technical industry and also make that technical industry have real world impact on marginalized communities just existing in the world. So that's kind of the journey, the transition into a bit of where I am now.
Humptycalderon: Oh, that's so beautiful. I love the way that you can break down your thoughts. You're a wonderful speaker. I really appreciate the way that you've kind of broken down your story and really from where you started to where you're at today and really kind of also expressing how you saw an opportunity to take an advantage of your smarts, your intelligence, right? I mean, I think that that's another really cool thing about the web3 space is we're all smart in different areas of life, right? Like we don't have to be just purely technical, but if you do have a technical background, oh my gosh like, that's amazing. There's a lot of opportunity there, but there's still that opportunity for people who can own their voice and who they are and lean into some other skills. Like for me, I love to talk.like that's a gift, and a curse I suppose, since I was a kid, I was a speaker I remember going to church and getting up there and talking, and that was my jam. And, now we're being at a family's party and just not shutting up. So I said, when I came into this space, there must be something I could do that I could build on from just my ability to, take in information, digest it, and then just communicate that out to the world so that I was also helping with that onboarding experience, right? For people to find ways to connect to this ecosystem in very simple forms, right? We're not necessarily having very technical discussions. Because I think most people that are coming to web3 may not be coming in from a very technical background.
So let's dive into Wonderverse. Let's talk a little bit about what it is, right? And I think there's some language that you use to describe it that I'll introduce after you give us a brief overview of it and, to kind of explore how this aligns to you as a person and the work that you're doing in this space.
En: So wonder is still pre-product right. We're working right now on the alpha launch with some DAO partners. But essentially what wonder is and there's other similar kind of products and I think the reason there's other similar types of products is because it's a need, right? So it's a valuable thing for the market or whatever.
But essentially I noticed, and also, wonder the organisation noticed that in web3, Digital organisation is quite a new concept. Before we were in offices or , in workspaces and having a completely remote completely digital company is in some ways revolutionary.
There are some people who have been doing it, within the last 20 years, but not until very recently with web2s, I don't know, full emergence, like it kind of fully matured in some ways, or is beginning to mature, the internet now allows coordination. And the issue in web3, at least, is that there's no platform that's web3 native that also enables that coordination in that project management.
So what Wonder's doing, and the reason I joined is because I know we're entering a bear market. Like I just feel it. And I'm excited, honestly. I'm like, yeah, that's finally, when I got in, in late 2019, early 2020, I was like, "when bear" "when bear" please now. Because I was excited for it. And essentially I joined wonder, cause I knew wonder, and similar products are gonna be what sustains us through a bear market and what's going to then, be the next thing.
Right? Cause, the issue with Web3 right now is that how does somebody really get engaged in a way that's easy in a way that's compelling. It doesn't exist. Like Twitter is really the best way we have. And then maybe discord. But both of those are, you know, rudimentary tools for building organisations that deliver value.
So, that's where wonder comes in, where it's like, okay, Hey, we have a platform. You can do project management. It's like a best in class project management platform. And also you can pay out people in crypto. You don't have to, right. You can just use it as project management, but also you can pay out. And also there can be plugins with governance and also you can token gate different pods for your DAO. Right? So it starts to give people the tools that aren't just like notion discord, Twitter, or telegram to really start to build value. It's like, you know, big, valuable corporations. I think that they're the best model, but they all do project management for a reason.
Right. Because , you have to figure out how to efficiently get things done. So that's kind of what wonder I see. And the reason I joined it was because I believe in the long term value, not just even within web3, but like who's to say,dOr, which is a framing, I kind of came up with a digital organisation. Why can't they use Wonder? This doesn't have to just be relegated to this web3 world. And I think that's the future of web3, just like web2, they're kind of backend technologies that facilitate something. Web2 facilitates a lot of social connection and web3 facilitates economic connection.
So I believe that we need products that are web2 plus web3, which I see as Wonder. That are like using both the best of both worlds to deliver some value for this kind of new digital age that especially millennials and gen Zs are realising why are we gonna waste literal space that could be used for community that could be used for agriculture that could used for whatever and put it off as building that produces no value and anyone could just, everyone just work at their house. Right. So I think we're also seeing the underpinning of a new economic change and a new social change that web3 will on the backend facilitate too. So that's my response.
Humptycalderon: I mean, I have a couple of follow up to that, but I'll recognize your excitement for a bear market.
I don't think that that's necessarily what most people think about, when there's a bear market, but you know, for those of us who have been in this space for any amount of time, there are cycles. There's the bull cycle, there's the bear cycle. But there's very big shifts that happen during that time, not just the market valuation of a project, right? or of a token, but really in terms of the philosophy of work, I think it really changes. There's a lot of hype, a lot of noise during the bull cycle, which personally for me, it's a little exhausting. It's hard to be on crypto Twitter
En: I agree.
Humptycalderon: Yeah. It's just, everyone has a good product. Of course, you're gonna look good in a bull market, right? and then everybody starts kind of copying the same thing that's successful. And I mean, I'm not gonna name projects, but there's a lot of that that happens right? But during a bear market, everybody just kind of puts their head down and just starts working. And I feel like a lot of what we see coming out of a bear cycle into a bull that is a very incredible valuable project are the ones that just were able to keep their head down work build out an incredible product that is valuable to the community that they serve. And they come out even better, right? Because all the hype has died down and the projects that we're just leaning and depending on hype, well, many times they just go away and out come these really incredible projects that sustain these cycle fluctuations. So, yes, I agree with you.
Now, you're talking about Wonder being a project management tool. I'm curious to hear from you, what you feel currently is lacking in the project management space in terms of like coordination, maybe remuneration, because it seems like there's some sort of payment facilitation through Wonder that you think is missing or, almost there that you think Wonder can really fill that gap.
En: Yeah, like I said I think it really comes down to the kind of cross functional nature of what Wonder's doing, because like what exists now? And I think about Asana, right? Is like, yeah, a lot of people use Asana. Right? But again, Asana is private, right. It's like a company uses Asana and it's closed. The thing that Wonder's doing is it allows you to be public, right? It allows you to have bounty and tasks that anybody can use. And that's like the reason it's for DAOs right? Because DAOs are inherently open or supposedly open entities that anyone can join and anyone can contribute to.
So the thing that Wonder is doing is it's allowing this more like spectrum of open closed, right? So it's like, you know, you can have a pod that's open and has public things, but you can also have a pod that's closed and has, task only people within that pod can see, and that can be gated by discord roles or by, you know, just kind of leaderships decision.
So again, like Asana is a great tool and like, I used it at my last company, but also that is not solving for this. How do I, not only just nationally or locally communicate, how do I globally organise and coordinate economically and socially, right? That's that piece of like, you know, asynchronous piece is what I think is gonna come out of web3 because it's required, right. An organisation that, just went, remote for COVID and is now kind of forcing everyone back is not really exploring the real pains of, what does it mean to be fully decentralised, to be fully remote, to be fully async and how do we solve that and how do we make that work? So I think that, you know, based on just the user research that Wonder's doing and the product research that is the key .That's like the thing. And it's, maybe it's not a huge innovation, but I think, I have this kind of a narrative in my head of, you have a person in Peru, a person in Zimbabwe, a person in the Philippines and they all have, and that is the leadership team. And you have a ton of contributors from all over the world that can't be done currently with most of what exists.
So that's why you see people use Notion or use discord or use Twitter, but that is not a project management system, right? That's not coordination or organisation. That's not what it's meant for really, it's meant for being social. So we're using these tools that are not intended for what we're doing where we're using them for, but they work in some ways, but I think Wonder is gonna kind of range into people of like, no, but we can make this fun. We can make this seamless, we can make this engaging. And then also still use these more social tools, like Discord, like Twitter to further enhance the quote unquote company culture. Right. And that's where my role as a community comes in of like, how do we imagine, explore, understand the future of work? We had a few Twitter spaces in our preseason over at Wonder of what does the future of work look like? What does joyful work look like? What does fulfilling work look like? In this kind of, you know, digital world. So yeah, that's kind of my high in the sky dream, but also I think it's really grounding what's happening now.
Humptycalderon: Again, I like to recognize people when they are very intentional with their language. I really like this term "joyful work". I think that we sometimes forget, right? Like there should be joy in what we do otherwise we're just working and it's not really changing anything we're extracting value right? It's all about creating value and retaining value and empowering people. right? So I really like that term. And I might be using that a lot more in terms of how I qualify projects that I'm involved with and maybe even projects that I myself am leading. Like, am I creating a space that makes this experience joyful?
Then if the answer is no, then I need to really check myself or check the projects I'm involved with. Right. Because that's not necessarily the space that personally I am trying to build. And I don't think that it's in line with the ethos of web3 as well. And again, I think the other term that you used earlier, and I want to just recognize that is dOrg, because I think that for the most part DAOs are neither decentralised or autonomous yet.
En: correct.
Humptycalderon: So that's a nice way of kind of alluding to maybe some of the distributed work, delegated work much better said than decentralised. But we're getting there, right? That's the goal, that's the vision. We're getting there.
I'd love to keep talking about Wonder, but you know what, I really want to talk about the Towers Three.
That project really excites me because I feel that it might be a little bit more personal intimate to you. And again, that's what I'm here for. I'm really here to kind of uncover some of what makes web3 beautiful. And that is the people and their stories that they bring to this space that really makes this ecosystem a much more fun place to be in. So the Towers Three, walk me through what this is and, you know, really kind of the Genesis of it and some of these initial experiences that you've been developing there.
En: Yeah, so actually this came out of a number of people who are in Web3 baddies of leadership in that kind of organisation that Discord, whatever, like social community a number of us broke out namely me, Sean and Rachel.
Because we, I don't know, I just like wanna get into it. Right? Like, let's talk, let's talk, you know what I'm saying? Let's get into it. So for me, like the Towers Three was also about, what's the point of this, right? What's the point? And the answer is maybe there's no point, but I wanna ask the question what's the point. And when the three of us asked this question, we're like, okay. So like, what is this technology? Right? And then the kind of first thing that we came to is trust,right? So then how we set up the Towers Three is we had, and I don't advise this for the bank depart and the new in web3, but the three of us who are quite like experts in web3. We were like, okay, we are building this connection between the three of us.
We're gonna share a private key. Right? Wasn't any of the like madamecultleader.eth is not connected to that. Just we spun up a new portal, wallet, whatever you wanna call it. And we shared the private key among us. And we're like, okay, so now we're required to have hard conversations about if we get money in this, how do we distribute it? How do we break it up? How do we, how do we trust each other with this like open financial access? So that was kind of one of the pillars.
The second pillar was how do our identities inform our vision, right? How does our lived experience inform what we see in the world? And kind of like. I'll speak for myself. My kind of thesis is that we cannot disconnect from our experiences. Our experiences are who we are and trying, and I think deluding ourselves into thinking like I exist in the vacuum or I, you know, my identities mean nothing, is like really untrue. I think from like a qualitative and also quantitative perspective.
So for me, the Towers Three was. How , if this whole web3 experiment is about making our lives better, being more efficient, having more joy and contentment in life, we have to talk about our humanity. We have to talk about who we are as people and why we're showing up and why we're, continuing to build, continuing to create, continuing to you know, synthesise, right?
Why? So that question of like, why am I here? Why are we doing this? What's the point? The Towers Three was about asking ourselves questions and also being critical of web3 as a whole, right? You know, since I come from a scientific background, for me being critical and asking hard questions and I think in a more human way, I mean, scientists can tend to be quite like emotionless, but that's by the training of science for, especially in like a kind of European or colonial science system, but regardless.
Science is all about asking hard questions to your hypothesis, right? Saying, well maybe this data doesn't make sense or maybe why did you ask it that way? Right? It's about critical thought. So for me, one thing I see lacking in web3 is critical thought and understanding time and place, right?
We're not just building this technology in a vacuum, but you're building this technology off. If you're in the U.S, right. For me personally, I'm building this technology within a society that, you know, Roe V Wade being overturned by the supreme court, right. In the society of like, you know, black and brown people constantly have been under attack, right? The history of like segregation and slavery like it’s just like I am building this technology through the context of my lived experience in place and time. So to pretend or to say like, oh, you know, that's not a data point is disingenuous, right? Oh, well, we don't have to ignore. We can ignore that.
Well, what's your test for outliers, right? If that's truly an outlier, you have to, you have to quantifiably prove that assumption. And, in my mind, one cannot do that. Right. There's too much data. There's too much empirical evidence. And for me, I must include that into my analysis of time and place and of where we can take web3 and where it's come from and where it is currently.
Right? So the Towers Three is about synthesising web3 with my life, with the community I built from, you know, web3 baddies and also with my friends.
Humptycalderon: Wow. I mean, that's so moving and inspiring. And like I said, that's why I was so excited for this conversation because I've been inspired by that writing I've been inspired by that movement.
Well, I think one of the things that I do also wanna touch on, because this is things that you had alluded to, or at least I think are part of the scope of Wonder not to go too far back of that, but. It's really kind of in the space of the future of work. So I wonder if we can bridge the two conversations, you know, the conversation of Wonder the conversation of the Towers Three is what are your thoughts?
You know, so DAOs or decentralised organisations or dOrgs, right? These are still very emergent elements of web3, right or organisations that are building on the web3 Legos that we're creating. What are your thoughts of like work and how that's going to look like in the future and how is, you know, Wonder going to facilitate some of that?
How is the Towers Three going to ensure that it is equitable and inclusive? Like, what's your thought there? Like, how's it gonna continue to grow? And how are all of these projects that you're involved with, do you think are going to facilitate that future in better ways?
En: Okay, interesting Humpty. The media response, I had two things.
The first is black cultures adapt. I said that in a random space and that still sticks with me. Cause I think it's so true,right? Like black cultures adapt. I just wanna sit with that. And the other thing I wanna say is, I don't know. And I think this what's interesting about my journey is that like leaving chemistry was a huge risk. Right. I was making good money. It was stable. I kind of had insured work. Right. Everyone needs analytical chemists, which was kind of like a very needed industry. And I left. Right. And I completely changed.You know, went to community management, right. And now I had a community completely different.
How is this gonna work out in 10 years? And I've tweeted this is, I don't know. And I think there's power in a world that always demands certainty to live in uncertainty. And I'm telling you that, like, it's not easy, but I feel that it's important for me not to crystallise a future in this moment.
Does that make sense? Or I feel like it's important for me not to like dictate a future. If it's one that I can't myself even imagine, right. If the future is going to rely on these novel, innovative moments in time in history to then create a future that is unimaginable to us in the present. So when I think about like the 10 years, and I do believe web3 is gonna be very prominent in 10 years. And it's gonna be very important 10 years for web3. I also for myself personally, want to sit in this. We'll see what happens.
Humptycalderon: Yeah, I hear you. Look, it's hard to imagine what this space is gonna look like in three months. So to say that we know how it's gonna look like in 10 years.
I mean, anybody who claims to know is just straight out lying and big red flag, please run away.
En: So trying to shut me up?
Humptycalderon: No, no, no, no, because for me it was more, it was more philosophical. Right? I. At least for me personally, I like to come at this space a lot more philosophically than, you know, analytically, because I think that there's a lot of truth that you can find along the way when you take the journey in that way.
En: Totally. And I will give, I will try to give you an actual answer. Because that was how I feel. And like the more kind of like logical answer is that I think for me, especially as like, you know, a black person rest is really important. because I saw like my family and everybody working so hard and I recognized that like, you know, when is, when do I rest?
Right. Not just as like a person who is an elder. Right. But how can I rest and rest be something that is part of work, right? Cause it's a very colonial concept. I remember like there's stories of like, you know, European colonisers coming and judging the indigenous populations of like they're so lazy.
They only work 3 hours a day. I just thought, and that story sticks with me. And for me, I'm like, how do, how does rest and work become collaborative, not oppositional. So I think for me in like my kind of immediate future, it's about really, I think it's about healing one you know, the kind of generational traumas and also it's about reimagining work in this way that is conducive to life, not doesn't resist life, right? So at Wonder I only work 30 hours a week. And I intentionally set that in the kind of, you know, contract I signed with them. Cause I was like, I want to have a life. I want to be able to rest. I want to be able to dream and imagine and build things that are of interest to me like this Towers Three.
So I think to answer your question more, like, not honestly, but more like, you know, frankly, I think that like for me, what's important is setting up a balanced life. Now, like, and I'm 27, right? So setting up a balanced life now, time, space, energy, ability. When those moments of, I want to build and work and do this really critical thing, when that comes unwritten.
Right. And you know, when that comes. People are like, oh, I'm so passionate. I wanna work all the time on this. So having the time, the space, the energy, the money to do that when that moment comes. So, yeah. Yeah.
Humptycalderon: And, you know, I think I'm gonna harken back to something you said at the beginning, and for anybody who's listening to this, who's listened to this show or knows me, knows that I take notes furiously.
So I have notes going back to the first thing you said when you walked in here. I like to do that because I can then take whatever you're talking about, and cross reference with something else that you've said previously to kind of tie in kind of, the conversation we're having. And one of the things you talked about was this initiative that you created in this web2 life where you created spaces for marginalised people, a program for inclusion really, at this organisation. And you did all this work and you did it for free, right? Like, you said, oh, well, you know, I should have probably gotten paid for that. And absolutely you should have. And then you said, you know, I was young. And I think that that's what happens with young people is they don't have the understanding of the work that they're doing and how that should be valued.
And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I see this happening in the web3 space, a lot of young people who I am like rooting for, to succeed, come in and they just put in a lot of time and I'm gonna say way too much time into building out, you know, a lot of what their vision is and I get it. You're young. You don't need to sleep. You could stay up late, but we need to be conscious of what we're building and who we're building it for. And the future that we're trying to build here.
When we are mindful of that, I think we will value our health as much as we value what we are building in terms of the vision or the product, right? So recognizing that we need to have, you know, a good balance to borrow the words that you were saying earlier and to have rest. Right. So I think for me, that's a big takeaway from how you started the discussion and how you're closing it.
En: Yeah. And the last thing I'll say on that, Humpty is that for me I always saw the equation of our society. And I think that was like the greatest innovation that my young self kind of like through all my thinking and processing came to. I realised that society doesn't value people or hard work, right?
It values performance. And what I did, especially even right outta college, I only worked 40 hours and I refused to work more. Despite everybody around me working themselves bare, I, you know, in web3 refused to be online all the time. right? I refused to give up rest. So even when I was building that global DEI program, I only did it at work.
And I recognized that like the incentive structure of our society is broken. And I recognize also that in web3, there's a chance for us to reimagine incentives. And this also, you know, connects with, like you said, rest, mental health, physical health connects also with the environmental health and all these health things.
They all are intersectional. And if we value ourselves, we start to value the world. So I think though it was hard as a young 20 something. To see my coworkers like work 60 hour a week, and me leave at 40. I actually was promoted before they were , which is interesting. That doesn't align with this narrative that people tell themselves, but it more aligns with the truth of how the incentive structure or system works.
And that's why I love Defi. That's why I love web3. Because implicitly, what it's teaching people. Is analysing business and economic incentive structures through an easily conceptualise or fun medium. So and I've said this web3 is educating people on levels they don't even see, but it's showing them money and their worth and how those two things connect and how money is ultimately a tool for our value.
Humptycalderon: And that's a wrap. I truly hope you enjoyed this conversation. I sure did. If you'd like to learn more about En and to follow them on Twitter, go to @cult_leader_En. And to learn more about their personal project, the Towers Three, please go to Twitter @thetowersthree and their blog @mirror.xyz/thetowers.eth
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