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-- PRE-CALL CHECKLIST ---
General Discovery
Researched by:
About the event
  • Project: Neutron
  • Guests: Avril Dutheil
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  • Event schedule:
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  • NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE
Transcript
So I guess how I can help you today is really just to learn a little bit more about you and your company and the impact that you're making and what category of web three you fill and how you connect with your audience and how we can connect with our audience and then relay that to her to program in her seasonal schedule. Does that sound okay?
That sounds awesome, yeah.
So tell me a little bit more about your platform and really what ecosystems are you integrated to, what is the utility to a community of users, et cetera.
Yeah, for sure. So Neutron is built with some of the core technologies that make the Cosmos ecosystem and the Cosmos SDK IBC tendermint. Now, in terms of what value it actually provides. It's a direct response to some of the shortcomings that the ecosystem has been limited by for the longest time. The ecosystem so far has been brought carried by the appchain thesis, which was understood as everything should be a Cosmos DK appchange. Our team doesn't believe that's the case. We do understand the benefits of customizability and sovereignty, but that can actually being an app chain doesn't require you to be a Cosmos DK appchain specifically. It could be a roll up. There's a wide design space.
Essentially, what Neutron does is for those who decide not to be a Cosmos SDK chain, we provide the infrastructure that allows you to still leverage IDC the protocol to the fullest. That's number one, which wasn't the case before, and two, therefore allows your application to launch within this ecosystem of 51 plus interconnected blockchains, but not actually have to choose and settle for just one feature set or just one market. Basically, we help connect all of them together so that your application can scale better and so that you can provide a better user experience by abstracting away a lot of the crushing complexity from the user interface and bring it towards the infrastructure layer instead. I believe you're a mute.
Yeah. Sorry. So I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to Cosmos, so educate me a little bit on kind of I guess you already started a little bit in terms of, like, the API chain thesis, I think you called it. Walk me through a little bit kind of the cosmos right now.
The appchain Thesis appchain is the idea that you can make a blockchain that's specific to one application and that you can bake the applications logic directly, very deep into the blockchain to try and how well that system, that distributed ledger will perform the functions that the applications need to function appchain.
Yeah. Okay, so walk me through a little bit then, how the DFI ecosystem has worked traditionally in the cosmos platform and how neutron, because you're saying you're kind of revolutionizing some of these things yourselves, how you're changing that from how it worked before and how it's working today.
Yeah, I mean, largely speaking, it hasn't worked before. You have an ecosystem of chains where there has been a lot of attempts, but also very limited liquidity, a lot of fragmentation in the liquidity in the user base, and a lot of friction in the UX. Well, there's basically two or three exceptions to that rule of generally DeFi has not been so successful in cosmos, which are I guess the most stark example is terra. Terra was a cosmos SDK app chain, and it was tremendously successful in bootstrapping, a very lively, very successful until USD collapsed. And since then, there really has been very limited sort of like DeFi in cosmos. And the only other project that really stand out was osmosis, an app chain that is built with a dex in the blockchain itself. Right?
So the whole blockchain is dedicated to allowing people to deposit, manage, and trade through the appchain's liquidity. Now, osmosis has been very successful for a combination of factor, including the fact that projects that were launching on neutron sorry, on cosmos, needed to have a token for their proof of stake in giant. And that token needed a way to be traded somewhere. And so what most projects would do is they would take their tokens then to osmosis, create liquidity there. But the sort of consequence of doing so has been that a lot of these projects who wanted to grow DFI ecosystem were unable to provide synchronously, available, synchronously, composable liquidity for their token.
And some of these platforms, like Juno, sort of like, paid the price in the long run, whereby the DFI activity just moved to osmosis, where trading was the core function, the core giant, and sort of strive there. But because osmosis won an app chain, and not just like a general ecosystem like ethereum, there have been sort of significant limits to which applications can actually launch there. So now you have this picture of an ecosystem of numerous blockchains, some of them pretty successful, but still a dearth of DeFi. That's because of sort of like the follow as well as the fragmentation of these chains despite the bridge protocols that connect them.
Now, neutron sort of changes this because first it allows small contracts like those on terra before to not only be successful in the ecosystem of neutron, but to also leverage IBC the bridge basically to the fullest eg. You can make an application that exists both on neutron and osmosis and other blockchains and is aware of all of its deployments and therefore sort of provide services to the users regardless of which blockchain they're on, without having to require them to bridge back and forth, because the protocol itself, the application, can do it pretty easily.
Okay, so what is your kind of community thesis at Neutron? How are you beyond obviously servicing the D Five needs of this community, how are you sending value to your community?
That's a good question. The first sort of value proposition is we are enabling a lot of development to happen in the ecosystem by removing some of these barriers.
Right.
So, like, we're simplifying crushing UX, we're simplifying the development process. We're enabling developers to build more scalable, like in a way that's more scalable. Before, you would have to develop your Cosmosm contracts, or you set and deploy them one chain, then adapt the Smart Contracts to another chain, then deploy it, and you would have to onboard the entire ecosystem to do this about 20 times. And then the rest of the chains you wouldn't even be able to launch on because they did not have smart contract capabilities. Now with neutron.
What you do instead is you make the smart contract once you deploy it on neutron and you use the crushing infrastructure on Neutron to communicate and act and interact with all of the other blockchains, which wasn't possible before because smart contracts did not have the bindings, the ability to leverage the technology of IBC that was baked into the block. So that's one of the core ways we're enabling growth and new use cases. We're removing friction from the crosschain. UX currently using IBC as something that's very secure but not always very intuitive. One example of this is how denominations are. There's a very good reason for why that's the case, but we won't go into it because it's pretty technical.
But essentially, when you send a token to another blockchain, the denomination received at the end contains an encrypted code that refers to the channel, the ABC connection that it was sent through. Right. So now if I send you token A from blockchain A on token on blockchain B, it's not exactly the same token, especially if I now send the token from blockchain A to blockchain C. The same token. Well, the two denominations that I end up on blockchain B and C are actually not fungible. If I want to send a token from B to C, I need to route through blockchain B through blockchain A sorry. In order to be able to have fungible denomination at the end.
Right. And so you're talking about, like, wrapping tokens and unwrapping tokens at each chain. Right.
Well, we call it like, path unwinding because it's not really like contracts that wrap these or such. But you're right in that you have different versions, like different representations of the tokens depending on which IBC channel they went through. And so this is something that's very non intuitive for users. And so by ensuring that this logic, instead of requiring users to perform these actions, having this logic sort of baked into the applications themselves. Sort of like helps alleviate a lot of the friction around that use. And then finally we're also providing a DeFi ecosystem that's more secure. Because one of the issues with a lot of Cosmos DK blockchains is that because they rely on their own tokens for security, they sort of need to be successful in order to be secure and they need to be secured in order to be successful.
So there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. And as a result of this, a lot of the blockchains have sort of stayed at around like $150,000,000 of US stake, which is actually not very high by the industry standard and which therefore sort of opens opportunity for a chain where a very valuable app is deployed to sort of be captured through governance. Neutron livia this entirely by ensuring that anything that's on Neutron is secured by the 2.5 billion plus dollars of atoms that are staked on the Cosmos hub, the largest blockchain. Cosmos.
Okay. Anything else you think could be relatable to? So I guess to frame this question a little bit differently, a lot of the people that we engage with and talk to on the podcast tend to be people who are most familiar with ethereum and an ethereum adjacent blockchain. So like L two S and things like that. Right. Or EVM compatible chains. They also because the genesis of our podcast started with the Dow community, we tend to have a lot of people who are interested in learning about Dows. And this is the reason why I was talking about how you extend value to your community because those would be some of the talking points that I think would relate and connect most with the people that we would be talking to on the podcast.
Anything else you think we could touch on that would have someone who normally listens to our podcast say, oh, that makes sense to me as a governor because of governance, token governance or as someone who is an advocate ambassador of a project because I do something similar with a Dow. Do you think there's something else we can add here about how Neutron connects with the community in that way?
Yeah, I think so. Essentially, governance in Cosmos is usually handled through a Cosmos SDK module, which is the X module. And that module essentially is delegated proof of stake e g. You send tokens, you delegate tokens to a validator that validator can vote on governance proposal on your behalf, but you can also cast your vaults, your vote directly if you want. Right. Sort of the typical setup of governance in Cosmos except Neutron as a replicated security chain because it receives security from another chain, doesn't have this. That module is replaced by something else. And so we have the choice of essentially rebuilding it in a different way and having it sort of like an addition to system or to rebuild governance different way.
What we opted to do is we created a module that allows a set of smart contracts on the platform itself to actually control the network parameters and coordinate network upgrades and such, right? And so that gave us a lot of flexibility around how we design the Dow structure. The way it works roughly is that we have a modular voting vault system whereby you can deposit your tokens into a small contract in order to get voting power, one per one. Or instead of depositing just NTRN tokens, you can deposit LP tokens that contain Nturen tokens. And the voting vault will calculate dynamically your voting power throughout the movements of the tokens that compose the pool. And you can do this system for any sort of token actually. You can make voting vaults that accept NFTs and grant voting power to them.
That's somewhat similar to what Element Finance did, which I also think they call voting vaults or something similar. Now, once you have that voting power, it feeds into allowing you to control the chain, the network parameters, voting on proposals and the like.
Did we get disconnected? Hello? Did we get disconnected?
It for a second.
There we go.
Sorry about that.
No worries. You were saying something and I was like wait, what happened? I thought it was on my end.
What's the last thing you heard?
You were talking about voting power and then you disconnected.
All right. So essentially, instead of recognizing only deposits of one token, we have the ability to make systems that grant voting power to variety of derivatives of the Nate token or even to completely different tokens, e. G. For example, there's this very interesting NFT drop that was made on the platform by sort of an OG community member. Dow could decide that, you know what, we'll give voting power to holders of NFT specifically or that we'll give voting power. We'll calculate power of liquidity providers for the NTRN token by count number of interior end that they have in their LPs and granting one point of voting power for this and adjusting over time for the fluctuations of the pool automatically. So the worst of the voting power is modular, but ways that this voting power is expressed are also modular.
So first, the structure of the Dow itself is somewhat fractile because the main Dow, which is sort of like this already, this set of small contracts that function together to allow you to get voting power, make decisions and execute this main Dow has the power through governor's proposal set up. Subdows which are part of the entire structure, are controlled by the main Dow but can have different voting systems, can have different restrictions, can have different types of funding and the like. One use case for this is for example, having a grants proposed, like a grants program whereby the subdou has a committee of people who work on this full time, they get funding from the main Dow.
But if the proposals that they're making do not please the main Dow can veto during timelock the execution of their proposals or it can even dissolve the subdow if it's trying to go rogue or similarly. So that's sort of like the modularity on the structure itself. That time lock mechanism, by the way, is similar to something that you would find in, I believe like Lido is doing something similar with Easy Track where they have an optimistic sort of like voting system. This is roughly similar. And now the last thing is like the funding system is also sort of modular eg. We have the treasury, which is the normal sort of like protocol treasury where you have a bunch of liquid tokens and they can be spent.
But we also implemented a contract that we call the reserve contract in which all of the tokens are vested. But instead of having like a set vesting schedule, they essentially vest based on chains activity. When transaction fees paid in neutron are burned, a multiplier of that gets released by the reserve contract and before it goes into the treasury, it can be allocated. You can imagine as a switch that allows you to send it to whatever other contractor address and that can be used to provide ongoing public funding to fund. Like quadratic funding matching pools over time to provide, for example, like liquidity incentives that adjust to market conditions dynamically without having to put proposals up to adjust the parameters. And so basically we have the two sides of the coin.
We have ongoing streams as well as one off fundings for which we have sort of like specialized infrastructure for all of these needs.
That's great. I think I see a parallel here that the community will enjoy diving into and that has to do with kind of innovation in governance. And the one thing that I think we enjoy hearing about and learning from is how different ecosystems treat governance like from voting, liquid, staking, time locking. I think all of these different things are different ways of kind of doing the same or solving similar problems. I think at this point I have enough information to hand off to our producer and host Rachel to kind of organize her thoughts.
And I think the next steps would be just for me to connect you with her to see, to coordinate a time and really just outline the discussion from exploring neutron, the cosmos ecosystem and then also touching on some of the things that are relevant and interesting to our community which is particularly governance and voting. I think this would make a really wonderful conversation. Is your preferred method of communication email or are you on Discord? Are you on telegram?
Yeah, telegram works well. I'll drop my handle in the chat. One other thing that we may be able touch upon conversation but we are most likely going to be like we are working towards building Celestiums on neutron as well. So roll ups that settle on neutron, the L One chain, but also publish the transaction data to Celestia and retrieve them through a trust minimized bridge that's based on IBC. So that's also another sort of like you mentioned, roll ups and roll up technology tend to be interesting to your community. If you want to add that to the mix, we're happy to, but it's as you wish.
Okay. Yeah, no, all of that sounds interesting, and I think at the end of the day, it really is a matter of what the producer is comfortable with. I personally am pretty comfortable with just about any topic. I've just been doing this for so long, but I want to respect her boundaries in terms of what she want to talk about. So I think I personally can see kind of where the outline could go, but my next step, again, is just to check in with her and give her an opportunity to introduce herself and coordinate with you kind of somebody's talking points. So I will connect you and her on Telegram, if that's okay.
That would be awesome. Thank you very much.
Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time and walking me through this. I'm really interested in learning more about how neutron and cosmos are kind of growing that DeFi ecosystem together.
Thanks. Looking forward.
We'll talk soon, then.
Cheers. Take care.
Bye bye.
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    ☑️
    -- PRE-CALL CHECKLIST ---
    General Discovery
    Researched by:
    About the event
    • Project: Neutron
    • Guests: Avril Dutheil
    • Topic:
    • Event schedule:
      • Recording Date:
      • Published Date:
    • NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE
    Transcript
    So I guess how I can help you today is really just to learn a little bit more about you and your company and the impact that you're making and what category of web three you fill and how you connect with your audience and how we can connect with our audience and then relay that to her to program in her seasonal schedule. Does that sound okay?
    That sounds awesome, yeah.
    So tell me a little bit more about your platform and really what ecosystems are you integrated to, what is the utility to a community of users, et cetera.
    Yeah, for sure. So Neutron is built with some of the core technologies that make the Cosmos ecosystem and the Cosmos SDK IBC tendermint. Now, in terms of what value it actually provides. It's a direct response to some of the shortcomings that the ecosystem has been limited by for the longest time. The ecosystem so far has been brought carried by the appchain thesis, which was understood as everything should be a Cosmos DK appchange. Our team doesn't believe that's the case. We do understand the benefits of customizability and sovereignty, but that can actually being an app chain doesn't require you to be a Cosmos DK appchain specifically. It could be a roll up. There's a wide design space.
    Essentially, what Neutron does is for those who decide not to be a Cosmos SDK chain, we provide the infrastructure that allows you to still leverage IDC the protocol to the fullest. That's number one, which wasn't the case before, and two, therefore allows your application to launch within this ecosystem of 51 plus interconnected blockchains, but not actually have to choose and settle for just one feature set or just one market. Basically, we help connect all of them together so that your application can scale better and so that you can provide a better user experience by abstracting away a lot of the crushing complexity from the user interface and bring it towards the infrastructure layer instead. I believe you're a mute.
    Yeah. Sorry. So I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to Cosmos, so educate me a little bit on kind of I guess you already started a little bit in terms of, like, the API chain thesis, I think you called it. Walk me through a little bit kind of the cosmos right now.
    The appchain Thesis appchain is the idea that you can make a blockchain that's specific to one application and that you can bake the applications logic directly, very deep into the blockchain to try and how well that system, that distributed ledger will perform the functions that the applications need to function appchain.
    Yeah. Okay, so walk me through a little bit then, how the DFI ecosystem has worked traditionally in the cosmos platform and how neutron, because you're saying you're kind of revolutionizing some of these things yourselves, how you're changing that from how it worked before and how it's working today.
    Yeah, I mean, largely speaking, it hasn't worked before. You have an ecosystem of chains where there has been a lot of attempts, but also very limited liquidity, a lot of fragmentation in the liquidity in the user base, and a lot of friction in the UX. Well, there's basically two or three exceptions to that rule of generally DeFi has not been so successful in cosmos, which are I guess the most stark example is terra. Terra was a cosmos SDK app chain, and it was tremendously successful in bootstrapping, a very lively, very successful until USD collapsed. And since then, there really has been very limited sort of like DeFi in cosmos. And the only other project that really stand out was osmosis, an app chain that is built with a dex in the blockchain itself. Right?
    So the whole blockchain is dedicated to allowing people to deposit, manage, and trade through the appchain's liquidity. Now, osmosis has been very successful for a combination of factor, including the fact that projects that were launching on neutron sorry, on cosmos, needed to have a token for their proof of stake in giant. And that token needed a way to be traded somewhere. And so what most projects would do is they would take their tokens then to osmosis, create liquidity there. But the sort of consequence of doing so has been that a lot of these projects who wanted to grow DFI ecosystem were unable to provide synchronously, available, synchronously, composable liquidity for their token.
    And some of these platforms, like Juno, sort of like, paid the price in the long run, whereby the DFI activity just moved to osmosis, where trading was the core function, the core giant, and sort of strive there. But because osmosis won an app chain, and not just like a general ecosystem like ethereum, there have been sort of significant limits to which applications can actually launch there. So now you have this picture of an ecosystem of numerous blockchains, some of them pretty successful, but still a dearth of DeFi. That's because of sort of like the follow as well as the fragmentation of these chains despite the bridge protocols that connect them.
    Now, neutron sort of changes this because first it allows small contracts like those on terra before to not only be successful in the ecosystem of neutron, but to also leverage IBC the bridge basically to the fullest eg. You can make an application that exists both on neutron and osmosis and other blockchains and is aware of all of its deployments and therefore sort of provide services to the users regardless of which blockchain they're on, without having to require them to bridge back and forth, because the protocol itself, the application, can do it pretty easily.
    Okay, so what is your kind of community thesis at Neutron? How are you beyond obviously servicing the D Five needs of this community, how are you sending value to your community?
    That's a good question. The first sort of value proposition is we are enabling a lot of development to happen in the ecosystem by removing some of these barriers.
    Right.
    So, like, we're simplifying crushing UX, we're simplifying the development process. We're enabling developers to build more scalable, like in a way that's more scalable. Before, you would have to develop your Cosmosm contracts, or you set and deploy them one chain, then adapt the Smart Contracts to another chain, then deploy it, and you would have to onboard the entire ecosystem to do this about 20 times. And then the rest of the chains you wouldn't even be able to launch on because they did not have smart contract capabilities. Now with neutron.
    What you do instead is you make the smart contract once you deploy it on neutron and you use the crushing infrastructure on Neutron to communicate and act and interact with all of the other blockchains, which wasn't possible before because smart contracts did not have the bindings, the ability to leverage the technology of IBC that was baked into the block. So that's one of the core ways we're enabling growth and new use cases. We're removing friction from the crosschain. UX currently using IBC as something that's very secure but not always very intuitive. One example of this is how denominations are. There's a very good reason for why that's the case, but we won't go into it because it's pretty technical.
    But essentially, when you send a token to another blockchain, the denomination received at the end contains an encrypted code that refers to the channel, the ABC connection that it was sent through. Right. So now if I send you token A from blockchain A on token on blockchain B, it's not exactly the same token, especially if I now send the token from blockchain A to blockchain C. The same token. Well, the two denominations that I end up on blockchain B and C are actually not fungible. If I want to send a token from B to C, I need to route through blockchain B through blockchain A sorry. In order to be able to have fungible denomination at the end.
    Right. And so you're talking about, like, wrapping tokens and unwrapping tokens at each chain. Right.
    Well, we call it like, path unwinding because it's not really like contracts that wrap these or such. But you're right in that you have different versions, like different representations of the tokens depending on which IBC channel they went through. And so this is something that's very non intuitive for users. And so by ensuring that this logic, instead of requiring users to perform these actions, having this logic sort of baked into the applications themselves. Sort of like helps alleviate a lot of the friction around that use. And then finally we're also providing a DeFi ecosystem that's more secure. Because one of the issues with a lot of Cosmos DK blockchains is that because they rely on their own tokens for security, they sort of need to be successful in order to be secure and they need to be secured in order to be successful.
    So there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. And as a result of this, a lot of the blockchains have sort of stayed at around like $150,000,000 of US stake, which is actually not very high by the industry standard and which therefore sort of opens opportunity for a chain where a very valuable app is deployed to sort of be captured through governance. Neutron livia this entirely by ensuring that anything that's on Neutron is secured by the 2.5 billion plus dollars of atoms that are staked on the Cosmos hub, the largest blockchain. Cosmos.
    Okay. Anything else you think could be relatable to? So I guess to frame this question a little bit differently, a lot of the people that we engage with and talk to on the podcast tend to be people who are most familiar with ethereum and an ethereum adjacent blockchain. So like L two S and things like that. Right. Or EVM compatible chains. They also because the genesis of our podcast started with the Dow community, we tend to have a lot of people who are interested in learning about Dows. And this is the reason why I was talking about how you extend value to your community because those would be some of the talking points that I think would relate and connect most with the people that we would be talking to on the podcast.
    Anything else you think we could touch on that would have someone who normally listens to our podcast say, oh, that makes sense to me as a governor because of governance, token governance or as someone who is an advocate ambassador of a project because I do something similar with a Dow. Do you think there's something else we can add here about how Neutron connects with the community in that way?
    Yeah, I think so. Essentially, governance in Cosmos is usually handled through a Cosmos SDK module, which is the X module. And that module essentially is delegated proof of stake e g. You send tokens, you delegate tokens to a validator that validator can vote on governance proposal on your behalf, but you can also cast your vaults, your vote directly if you want. Right. Sort of the typical setup of governance in Cosmos except Neutron as a replicated security chain because it receives security from another chain, doesn't have this. That module is replaced by something else. And so we have the choice of essentially rebuilding it in a different way and having it sort of like an addition to system or to rebuild governance different way.
    What we opted to do is we created a module that allows a set of smart contracts on the platform itself to actually control the network parameters and coordinate network upgrades and such, right? And so that gave us a lot of flexibility around how we design the Dow structure. The way it works roughly is that we have a modular voting vault system whereby you can deposit your tokens into a small contract in order to get voting power, one per one. Or instead of depositing just NTRN tokens, you can deposit LP tokens that contain Nturen tokens. And the voting vault will calculate dynamically your voting power throughout the movements of the tokens that compose the pool. And you can do this system for any sort of token actually. You can make voting vaults that accept NFTs and grant voting power to them.
    That's somewhat similar to what Element Finance did, which I also think they call voting vaults or something similar. Now, once you have that voting power, it feeds into allowing you to control the chain, the network parameters, voting on proposals and the like.
    Did we get disconnected? Hello? Did we get disconnected?
    It for a second.
    There we go.
    Sorry about that.
    No worries. You were saying something and I was like wait, what happened? I thought it was on my end.
    What's the last thing you heard?
    You were talking about voting power and then you disconnected.
    All right. So essentially, instead of recognizing only deposits of one token, we have the ability to make systems that grant voting power to variety of derivatives of the Nate token or even to completely different tokens, e. G. For example, there's this very interesting NFT drop that was made on the platform by sort of an OG community member. Dow could decide that, you know what, we'll give voting power to holders of NFT specifically or that we'll give voting power. We'll calculate power of liquidity providers for the NTRN token by count number of interior end that they have in their LPs and granting one point of voting power for this and adjusting over time for the fluctuations of the pool automatically. So the worst of the voting power is modular, but ways that this voting power is expressed are also modular.
    So first, the structure of the Dow itself is somewhat fractile because the main Dow, which is sort of like this already, this set of small contracts that function together to allow you to get voting power, make decisions and execute this main Dow has the power through governor's proposal set up. Subdows which are part of the entire structure, are controlled by the main Dow but can have different voting systems, can have different restrictions, can have different types of funding and the like. One use case for this is for example, having a grants proposed, like a grants program whereby the subdou has a committee of people who work on this full time, they get funding from the main Dow.
    But if the proposals that they're making do not please the main Dow can veto during timelock the execution of their proposals or it can even dissolve the subdow if it's trying to go rogue or similarly. So that's sort of like the modularity on the structure itself. That time lock mechanism, by the way, is similar to something that you would find in, I believe like Lido is doing something similar with Easy Track where they have an optimistic sort of like voting system. This is roughly similar. And now the last thing is like the funding system is also sort of modular eg. We have the treasury, which is the normal sort of like protocol treasury where you have a bunch of liquid tokens and they can be spent.
    But we also implemented a contract that we call the reserve contract in which all of the tokens are vested. But instead of having like a set vesting schedule, they essentially vest based on chains activity. When transaction fees paid in neutron are burned, a multiplier of that gets released by the reserve contract and before it goes into the treasury, it can be allocated. You can imagine as a switch that allows you to send it to whatever other contractor address and that can be used to provide ongoing public funding to fund. Like quadratic funding matching pools over time to provide, for example, like liquidity incentives that adjust to market conditions dynamically without having to put proposals up to adjust the parameters. And so basically we have the two sides of the coin.
    We have ongoing streams as well as one off fundings for which we have sort of like specialized infrastructure for all of these needs.
    That's great. I think I see a parallel here that the community will enjoy diving into and that has to do with kind of innovation in governance. And the one thing that I think we enjoy hearing about and learning from is how different ecosystems treat governance like from voting, liquid, staking, time locking. I think all of these different things are different ways of kind of doing the same or solving similar problems. I think at this point I have enough information to hand off to our producer and host Rachel to kind of organize her thoughts.
    And I think the next steps would be just for me to connect you with her to see, to coordinate a time and really just outline the discussion from exploring neutron, the cosmos ecosystem and then also touching on some of the things that are relevant and interesting to our community which is particularly governance and voting. I think this would make a really wonderful conversation. Is your preferred method of communication email or are you on Discord? Are you on telegram?
    Yeah, telegram works well. I'll drop my handle in the chat. One other thing that we may be able touch upon conversation but we are most likely going to be like we are working towards building Celestiums on neutron as well. So roll ups that settle on neutron, the L One chain, but also publish the transaction data to Celestia and retrieve them through a trust minimized bridge that's based on IBC. So that's also another sort of like you mentioned, roll ups and roll up technology tend to be interesting to your community. If you want to add that to the mix, we're happy to, but it's as you wish.
    Okay. Yeah, no, all of that sounds interesting, and I think at the end of the day, it really is a matter of what the producer is comfortable with. I personally am pretty comfortable with just about any topic. I've just been doing this for so long, but I want to respect her boundaries in terms of what she want to talk about. So I think I personally can see kind of where the outline could go, but my next step, again, is just to check in with her and give her an opportunity to introduce herself and coordinate with you kind of somebody's talking points. So I will connect you and her on Telegram, if that's okay.
    That would be awesome. Thank you very much.
    Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time and walking me through this. I'm really interested in learning more about how neutron and cosmos are kind of growing that DeFi ecosystem together.
    Thanks. Looking forward.
    We'll talk soon, then.
    Cheers. Take care.
    Bye bye.
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    About our guest speaker
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