🎧Gitcoin Twitter Spaces Collab - Sybil Slayers: predicting and squelching attacks with open data

Tags

Recording: https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1lDGLnYjOvzxm

Sybil slayers: predicting and squelching attacks with open data.

10/13/2022

Twitter Spaces

Humpty - Crypto Sapiens - @cryptosapiens_

Evan Powell - Gitcoin - @epowell101

David - Orange Protocol - @OrangeProtocol

Erick Pinos - @erickpinos

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙) - Gitcoin - @DisruptionJoe

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️ - Bright ID - @cadamstallard

tl;dr

4:41

Humpty - Crypto Sapiens

@cryptosapiens_

I'm personally excited  with our friends from Gitcoin, our friends from Orange and our friends from Bright ID to kind of take on this subject of quadratic funding, which obviously has a lot of importance and tremendous value for the maturity and the robustness of web 3.

5:58

Evan Powell

@epowell101

I’m helping initiate the open data hackathon which is ongoing, I'm working with Gitcoin on an open data strategy

I'm here really excited to help catalyze an open data community.

7:37

David - Orange Protocol

@OrangeProtocol

Orange Protocol is essentially a middleware platform for reputation and verifiable credentials. We get used by a lot of different types of projects, but mostly Dows and just any type of web three community that wants to utilize.

Kind of activity and past experience and however they want to define reputation and in terms of like voting and rewards, air drops, various type of things.

10:21

Erick Pinos

@erickpinos

I think what I really like about this is figuring out more smart models of of how to identify reputation especially in different contexts so you know i mainly work on the model refinement and it's a back and forth discovery process with our partners and collaborators to identify what are the best parameters for measuring someone's reputation.

11:11

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

Yeah, I think the fundamental problem we're looking at is there's one person, one vote on the theoretical spectrum, and there's one token, one vote, then quadratic funding gives us a balance in between. But that balance is only accurate and credible if there's no civil actors.

12:34

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

We’re seeing civil attacks of different varieties and we're at this stage where we really need the full community to jump in and help with this, this isn't a problem that's going to be solved by even hiring the best, like data scientists in the world. It's gonna be an adversarial infinite game that continues on and we need to slowly make progress here.

14:20

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️

@cadamstallard

Bright ID is trying to make sure that people have access to the rights and resources that they should be getting just by being human. One of the main reasons why we can't have nice things is because of sybil attacks whenever we try to give everybody something nice using the internet, somebody comes in and takes 10,000 of the nice things. We’re really focused a solution and that it had to be something that would not require you to to give away more than what's absolutely necessary.

16:09

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

I think one of the things we should do as we continue to explore resistance to symbols is defined what is symbols, you know, one of these terms or one of these ways of describing that I that I've seen is Sock puppet accounts, these accounts that are you know maybe not necessarily fake, but their intention is different from someone creating different accounts for different use cases. It's someone creating multiple accounts to try to take advantage of some incentive or some function within a protocol.

17:16

Evan Powell

@epowell101

Just very quickly, quadratic voting if you don't know what it it is a one person one vote and actually amplifying that that one person one vote.

Algorithm right. And and 1st described or articulated by Vitali and others a number of years ago.

18:18

Evan Powell

@epowell101

The team that Joe has helped put together and the team of data scientists there is doing work all the time and trying to anticipate these sorts of behaviors and squelching them and there's humans involved of course it's not just algorithms.

20:11

Evan Powell

@epowell101

We’re putting just under $20,000 behind a set of bounties encouraging folks to help us in an open way of course. So the whole community finds Sybils or Slays Sybils.

So as we're doing that, let's get that data science out there as well, so those communities can protect themselves and protect one person, one vote in quadratic voting.

21:17

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

What would that look like if we potentially built something that defeats or resist sybils, but does so in ways that are not privacy preserving. What does that dystopic scenario look like?

26:10

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

Let's say what we're doing is we're talking about like that old lady that puts a bowl of candy out and is like, take one.

With the blockchain tech we actually figured out how to make sure one person doesn't take them all. So what they do instead, is they create many accounts and they have to have a new account to be able to take that second or that 3rd or the 4th one. That's that's the essence of the Sybil attack.

ETL process working so that we get that observability, reproducibility, and allow people the option to choose their own funding stack.

30:42

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️

@cadamstallard

A community creates a grant round then they get to, as a community picks the rules and one of the rules is like OK this is what your Gitcoin passport is going to have to look like to participate.

32:14

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️

@cadamstallard

Keeping privacy in mind because if you if you require too many “and’s” in your in your passport,  like it's got to be this, and this, and this, The anonymity shrinks and shrinks until it's like: OK because you answered it this way you must be one of these like 5 people. Anytime you say “or” it grows anytime you say “and” it shrinks the anonymity set and but one of the nice things is you can always just throw in an extra “and” with bright ID and then that gets you like that ideally gets you some sybil resistance.

35:06

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

Attesting to being a member of certain deals could be an opportunity for you to signal that you're a real user, a valuable contributor. Using open data to make these applications as another verifiable proof of your humanity in this fight against sybils.

35:35

Erick Pinos

@erickpinos

With the and or logic is the best because people are proving themselves in multiple different ways. Through deductive reasoning you can identify, oh, this person must be this person because they're part of these four dolls and they hold this NFT right.

37:57

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

What are the outcomes that we would like to see from these types of events as we're talking about civil resistance as we're talking about open data and as we're talking about collaboration?

40:53

Evan Powell

@epowell101

Use your data, what data sources you're interesting, what are your approaches? Share that put some thought into it and that's what we want to see and maybe it'll be a LEGO that we can all collectively use in the future too.

41:14

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

I would take inspiration from Ice Cube and like 21 Jump St., He’s like “find the dealers, infiltrate the supplier.” That's it, right? Like our our thing right here is understand the problem, find something that is significant and tell us about it. That's what we're looking for. We're looking for insights.

43:02

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

The other thing with this data thing is that that coaching and collaborative spirit of working together with other people is a really interesting thing, because we're looking for the things we don't know and don't understand.

I think a lot of that's gonna come from different perspectives, anything that you find could be useful. It’s not just identifying civil behavior, it's also identifying similarities and correlations.

49:39

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

What we're trying to do is empower fair votes and optimal capital allocation.

52:06

Evan Powell

@epowell101

There also is an ability called a trust bonus.  You can opt in for higher levels of validation and so there's a lot of knobs here that are available to to a community including as you were saying Joe you know how how close you're open do you want these algorithms to be as well.

53:37

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

In part 2 two of this series, we will open up the conversation about some of the work that's happening at Gitcoi,  including the open data science hackathon.  If you wanted to continue this conversation if you want to hear about how web three data presents new opportunities compared to web two data and how we as builders here all can contribute to that future, tune in to that one. Thursday 10/20 @ 1700 UTC. So for those of you in the United States, Pacific Time, 10:00 AM Eastern Time, 1:00

🎧Gitcoin Twitter Spaces Collab - Sybil Slayers: predicting and squelching attacks with open data

Tags

Recording: https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1lDGLnYjOvzxm

Sybil slayers: predicting and squelching attacks with open data.

10/13/2022

Twitter Spaces

Humpty - Crypto Sapiens - @cryptosapiens_

Evan Powell - Gitcoin - @epowell101

David - Orange Protocol - @OrangeProtocol

Erick Pinos - @erickpinos

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙) - Gitcoin - @DisruptionJoe

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️ - Bright ID - @cadamstallard

tl;dr

4:41

Humpty - Crypto Sapiens

@cryptosapiens_

I'm personally excited  with our friends from Gitcoin, our friends from Orange and our friends from Bright ID to kind of take on this subject of quadratic funding, which obviously has a lot of importance and tremendous value for the maturity and the robustness of web 3.

5:58

Evan Powell

@epowell101

I’m helping initiate the open data hackathon which is ongoing, I'm working with Gitcoin on an open data strategy

I'm here really excited to help catalyze an open data community.

7:37

David - Orange Protocol

@OrangeProtocol

Orange Protocol is essentially a middleware platform for reputation and verifiable credentials. We get used by a lot of different types of projects, but mostly Dows and just any type of web three community that wants to utilize.

Kind of activity and past experience and however they want to define reputation and in terms of like voting and rewards, air drops, various type of things.

10:21

Erick Pinos

@erickpinos

I think what I really like about this is figuring out more smart models of of how to identify reputation especially in different contexts so you know i mainly work on the model refinement and it's a back and forth discovery process with our partners and collaborators to identify what are the best parameters for measuring someone's reputation.

11:11

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

Yeah, I think the fundamental problem we're looking at is there's one person, one vote on the theoretical spectrum, and there's one token, one vote, then quadratic funding gives us a balance in between. But that balance is only accurate and credible if there's no civil actors.

12:34

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

We’re seeing civil attacks of different varieties and we're at this stage where we really need the full community to jump in and help with this, this isn't a problem that's going to be solved by even hiring the best, like data scientists in the world. It's gonna be an adversarial infinite game that continues on and we need to slowly make progress here.

14:20

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️

@cadamstallard

Bright ID is trying to make sure that people have access to the rights and resources that they should be getting just by being human. One of the main reasons why we can't have nice things is because of sybil attacks whenever we try to give everybody something nice using the internet, somebody comes in and takes 10,000 of the nice things. We’re really focused a solution and that it had to be something that would not require you to to give away more than what's absolutely necessary.

16:09

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

I think one of the things we should do as we continue to explore resistance to symbols is defined what is symbols, you know, one of these terms or one of these ways of describing that I that I've seen is Sock puppet accounts, these accounts that are you know maybe not necessarily fake, but their intention is different from someone creating different accounts for different use cases. It's someone creating multiple accounts to try to take advantage of some incentive or some function within a protocol.

17:16

Evan Powell

@epowell101

Just very quickly, quadratic voting if you don't know what it it is a one person one vote and actually amplifying that that one person one vote.

Algorithm right. And and 1st described or articulated by Vitali and others a number of years ago.

18:18

Evan Powell

@epowell101

The team that Joe has helped put together and the team of data scientists there is doing work all the time and trying to anticipate these sorts of behaviors and squelching them and there's humans involved of course it's not just algorithms.

20:11

Evan Powell

@epowell101

We’re putting just under $20,000 behind a set of bounties encouraging folks to help us in an open way of course. So the whole community finds Sybils or Slays Sybils.

So as we're doing that, let's get that data science out there as well, so those communities can protect themselves and protect one person, one vote in quadratic voting.

21:17

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

What would that look like if we potentially built something that defeats or resist sybils, but does so in ways that are not privacy preserving. What does that dystopic scenario look like?

26:10

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

Let's say what we're doing is we're talking about like that old lady that puts a bowl of candy out and is like, take one.

With the blockchain tech we actually figured out how to make sure one person doesn't take them all. So what they do instead, is they create many accounts and they have to have a new account to be able to take that second or that 3rd or the 4th one. That's that's the essence of the Sybil attack.

ETL process working so that we get that observability, reproducibility, and allow people the option to choose their own funding stack.

30:42

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️

@cadamstallard

A community creates a grant round then they get to, as a community picks the rules and one of the rules is like OK this is what your Gitcoin passport is going to have to look like to participate.

32:14

C. Adam Stallard🔆🆔🌈🧻🧢⬆️

@cadamstallard

Keeping privacy in mind because if you if you require too many “and’s” in your in your passport,  like it's got to be this, and this, and this, The anonymity shrinks and shrinks until it's like: OK because you answered it this way you must be one of these like 5 people. Anytime you say “or” it grows anytime you say “and” it shrinks the anonymity set and but one of the nice things is you can always just throw in an extra “and” with bright ID and then that gets you like that ideally gets you some sybil resistance.

35:06

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

Attesting to being a member of certain deals could be an opportunity for you to signal that you're a real user, a valuable contributor. Using open data to make these applications as another verifiable proof of your humanity in this fight against sybils.

35:35

Erick Pinos

@erickpinos

With the and or logic is the best because people are proving themselves in multiple different ways. Through deductive reasoning you can identify, oh, this person must be this person because they're part of these four dolls and they hold this NFT right.

37:57

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

What are the outcomes that we would like to see from these types of events as we're talking about civil resistance as we're talking about open data and as we're talking about collaboration?

40:53

Evan Powell

@epowell101

Use your data, what data sources you're interesting, what are your approaches? Share that put some thought into it and that's what we want to see and maybe it'll be a LEGO that we can all collectively use in the future too.

41:14

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

I would take inspiration from Ice Cube and like 21 Jump St., He’s like “find the dealers, infiltrate the supplier.” That's it, right? Like our our thing right here is understand the problem, find something that is significant and tell us about it. That's what we're looking for. We're looking for insights.

43:02

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

The other thing with this data thing is that that coaching and collaborative spirit of working together with other people is a really interesting thing, because we're looking for the things we don't know and don't understand.

I think a lot of that's gonna come from different perspectives, anything that you find could be useful. It’s not just identifying civil behavior, it's also identifying similarities and correlations.

49:39

DisruptionJoe.eth (🤖,💙)

@DisruptionJoe

What we're trying to do is empower fair votes and optimal capital allocation.

52:06

Evan Powell

@epowell101

There also is an ability called a trust bonus.  You can opt in for higher levels of validation and so there's a lot of knobs here that are available to to a community including as you were saying Joe you know how how close you're open do you want these algorithms to be as well.

53:37

Humpty  Crypto Sapiens

@CryptoSapiens_

In part 2 two of this series, we will open up the conversation about some of the work that's happening at Gitcoi,  including the open data science hackathon.  If you wanted to continue this conversation if you want to hear about how web three data presents new opportunities compared to web two data and how we as builders here all can contribute to that future, tune in to that one. Thursday 10/20 @ 1700 UTC. So for those of you in the United States, Pacific Time, 10:00 AM Eastern Time, 1:00