August 17, 2021: DeFi primitives and onboarding new users. (Ep. 7)
A discussion and Q&A session with Leighton Cusack, Co-founder of PoolTogether, and Mkkoll and Gio, two of the project's community advocates. Recorded on August 17, 2021.
Leighton Cusack, Co-founder of PoolTogether, and community advocates Mkkoll and Gio, join us to introduce the crypto-powered savings protocol and its role in creating accessible onramps to DeFi for new users.
Resource links:
PoolTogether is a crypto-powered savings protocol based on Premium Bonds.
https://pooltogether.com/
https://twitter.com/PoolTogether_
Connect with PoolTogether Co-Founder, Leighton Cusack.
https://twitter.com/lay2000lbs
Episode Questions/ Poll Ideas
What is a DeFi primitive?
Why is Blockchain a natural choice for a no-loss lottery?
What is the most popular no-loss lottery in the world?
- PoolTogether
- PoolApart
- London
- CryptoSaviens
What is the most money someone has won on PoolTogether?
- $7,000
- $43,000
- $74,000
Does depositing more tokens earn more lottery tickets and linearly increase your chances of winning? Yes, but technically any system can be implemented.
What is the governance structure of PoolTogether?
- Immutable Protocol
- Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO) of $POOL Token Holders
- Ethereum
- Bankless
What's the difference between pools and pods?
- Pools are smart contracts that host a no-loss lottery
- Pods are groups of people within a pool that combine funds to increase chances of the pod winning and then the members split the reward. Also saves on gas fees by using a Pod Manager behind the scenes.
What Blockchain is PT live on?
- Ethereum
- Polygon
- BSC
- All of the above
Full Transcript (from Descript - published episode)
[00:00:00] Welcome to crypto sapiens, a show that hosts lively discussions with innovative web Rebuilders to help you learn about decentralized money systems, including it varium Bitcoin and defies. The podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. And it is not financial advice. Crypto sapiens is presented in partnership with Bankless down a movement for pioneer seeking freedom from the limitations of the.
[00:00:30] Financial system bank doubt will help the world. Cool bank list. I create a user-friendly on-ramps for people to discover decentralized financial technologies through education, media, and culture.
[00:00:46] Hi everyone. I'm your host, Humpty caldron. And today I'm talking to Layton Cusak. Co-founder at pulled together and community advocates for coal and. We discussed the crypto powered savings protocol and the value of creating accessible on-ramps to defy for new users. Well, let's get started, um, first off.
[00:01:06] Thanks for, thanks for having us super excited to be here. Um, love, uh, bank list and what you guys are doing, and, um, been, uh, been a fan for a long time, but, um, yeah, so about myself, I got into crypto in late 2016, and at the time I originally got to Bitcoin. And if you guys remember, like, that was when Coinbase had two assets, they had Bitcoin and ether and I was like, oh, this is only like $9.
[00:01:28] A Bitcoin is like $900, so I should buy eats. So that's how I found out about it. Then. Um, and then, uh, throughout 2017 and 2018 started just getting more and more involved. And, um, ultimately went to this Ethereum hackathon, um, uh, in Denver, the east Denver hackathon in February of 2019 and had the idea for starting pool together at that time for starting a protocol for no loss, lotteries, AKA, no loss, some privacy.
[00:01:58] And, um, basically, uh, pitched the idea there, got a grant from baker and, and that's, you know, I'm obviously skipping over a lot of stuff, but that's, that's pretty much how political it started. So pull together is actually one of the first defy, um, protocols it's launched in may of, uh, or sorry, June of 2019.
[00:02:15] So at that time, you know, um, there was SNX, there was, there was maker, there was unit swap the compound and pool together, and that was pretty much the only ones that got. Oh, thanks for the intro. And actually great to hear that the Genesis was that he, Denver seems like a lot of activity happens there and a lot of, uh, great projects that we're familiar with, uh, have had their start there also in terms of pull together and its Genesis and it's, uh, I guess, relationship with, uh, Uh, and, and the fact that it's one of the earliest defy protocols, all of it just really makes sense.
[00:02:51] In fact, I was recently listening to a discussion where you participate. I believe it was with David Hoffman. And you were just talking about how it was time to kind of, uh, talk a little bit more about pull together just because of the fact that a lot has happened since the very beginning of defy, um, and, and pulled together to has continued to grow.
[00:03:14] So, so why don't, why don't you talk a little bit about that aha moment, the inspiration to pull together and why you chose to take on this? Uh, I guess, uh, concept of taking these no pride or, um, no loss lotteries. So no loss, lotteries are actually something that exists in the sort of traditional financial system and they're not super popular in the United States.
[00:03:39] So a lot of people don't necessarily. Um, but you know, for me, when I was getting into defy, I, I was really interested in working on protocols that would help people become more financially healthy, right? Like actually help people achieve, achieve financial mobility and achieve financial health. And, um, basically in my research, I came across this idea for no loss lotteries and thought, wow, one, this is like a brilliant idea.
[00:04:06] And to that, there's a ton of research showing that this actually helps people save money. It actually decreases spending on normal lotteries. Um, so it's sort of empirically proven and three that this is an idea that would just work way better as a decentralized protocol. And so, um, That was really so really the motivation was like, okay, how do we build something that's going to actually help people achieve financial wealth?
[00:04:29] And the, the, the kind of the edge was like, well, this is, this is a, uh, a proven idea that's super popular. It helps people. And also it's going to be way better on a blockchain. So let, let me go back a little bit there, because I think there's something here that I'm really interested in, and that is the concept of no loss, lotteries, lotteries, and how these are being used in other countries outside the.
[00:04:53] From your research first? Uh, what is it that what's, what's the function? How are these being used in other countries and to from your research, did, did you see these working? Because it was kind of like, and I hate to use this overused term, but banking the bank list, giving people an opportunity to, uh, be able to save in a way that's not accessible through normal.
[00:05:20] Um, yeah, well, so, so the biggest, the biggest, uh, currently the biggest, like no loss lottery in the world is in the UK and it's called premium bonds. And so for some general stats, they have a hundred billion dollars deposited into premium bonds. And that generates, um, uh, about like $1.2 billion a year in prizes.
[00:05:41] Um, From a scale perspective. These are, this is a really large, like I said, it's one of the most popular consumer financial instruments that exists. Um, and. And they are, as you said, they are really popular. They're really popular actually kind of across the demographic spectrum, but there is a lot of research that shows specifically unbanked people will, um, will essentially use these, uh, well, this will, this will attract people who are not traditionally banked and get that there's, there's a really good research report.
[00:06:13] Um, I'll, I'll, I'll find the link and post in the chat when I'm not talking. Basically doing research on, um, how much, how many people who didn't have bank accounts, created bank accounts for the first time specifically to do, um, no loss lotteries and obviously, um, with pool together, you know, that just makes it so much easier, right?
[00:06:32] Cause you don't have to create a bank account to join pool together. You just have to have it in Syrian wallet or, or your wallet on polygon. Yeah. So I I'm, I'm trying to wrap my head around this in terms of, you know, how this works and all that, but I guess one of the things that's that I'm curious as to when you were doing your research and you were adapting this for the digital world, what lent itself to doing this on chain and, you know, kind of what was the vision for it, or really, how were you taking that original idea and then evolving it for, for the.
[00:07:08] Yeah. Well, so I think there's two, two parts that, right. So the first part is, is maybe a little bit more of the boring part. And that's like, just sort of from a functionality perspective, why it's better, right? So if you're doing this on the blockchain, it means it's globally accessible, right? It's not limited to one specific country.
[00:07:23] So it means you can have like way more deposits, way, bigger prizes, et cetera. If you're doing this on the blockchain, it means it's auditable. It's open source. So typically a big problem with no loss lotteries is like, how do you know that the person who actually was. Is not just the guy's friend, who's running it.
[00:07:38] Right. And so, you know, being open-source project on the, on the Ethereum blockchain it's auditable, anyone can verify that it's truly fair, um, is also far more scalable, right? You don't have, you have no incremental costs. So to, for a new person to deposit it to the protocol, there's no cost associated. I mean, that, that person is paying a transaction fee, but there's no cost to the protocol to do that.
[00:08:01] So those are sort of like. Um, they're like operational reasons that I thought this was a lot better, but I think the most important reason. It's the one we have is the decentralization and user ownership. Right? So having, instead of, instead of a financial intermediary, like a bank running this program and, um, you know, monopolizing, the profits that come from it, you have a decentralized network that's owned by the pool token holders who, um, who received the token for using the protocol and can run the, it can run the protocol.
[00:08:32] And I think data is the other, the other big piece. That's really exciting. And, um, yeah, I'm really sorry. Well, and I think that just goes back to, you know, the topic of discussion and that's defy primitives, right? So I think to some degree, if not, you know, not just to some degree, but really pull together is one of those defy primitives and it's and it's, and it sounds pretty original in terms of what we may be familiar with in terms of defy, because there there's there's mechanisms there that are unique to it.
[00:09:04] Yeah, well, for sure. I mean, I think a lot of DFI primitives are pretty hardcore financial things, right? Like we have a lot of like options and like, um, hedging and like all these things, which are great. I started thinking, pull the others like a D five primitive for, for normal people. Like it's something that like your grandma probably isn't going to trade like options, but I think she might want to deposit to pull together.
[00:09:26] Yes, it's familiar, I guess, a better word for it. Um, you know, especially for those where, you know, these, these systems are available to them, they recognize them and it isn't as scary, you know, based on its complexity, you know, it's pretty straightforward. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's, and it's like, I mean, the only thing that we struggle with is it's almost too good to be true.
[00:09:49] Right? Like people have to be convinced to sign a scam because they're like, wait a lottery. I can't lose. Right. What do we speak to that? When we talk about the no, no loss part of the lottery, what does that mean? Um, well, yeah, I mean, I want to get, I want to get the other, our other community advocates involved here.
[00:10:07] Cause they, they can speak to this even better than I can, but you know, so I'll give a quick answer and let them. No loss basically just means in relationship to what you deposit, you will always end up with the same or more money. If you deposit a hundred dollars, you can take your a hundred dollars back.
[00:10:23] Whenever you want to. Your worst case scenario is, is you will have a hundred dollars plus in pool tokens. Your best case scenario is you'll have a hundred dollars plus thousands, more dollars. Um, so like the luckiest winter so far with pulled together, they deposited $78 and they won $43,000. It's basically like, you always are going to win, but you see, but sometimes you'll win, like even more geo, did you want to add anything to that?
[00:10:49] Yeah. So the way, the way I look at the no loss part as that traditional lotteries, they are, there are plenty of Palestine, right there. There are gambles. So you put your money and you may win, but chances are you will. And your money's gone. And it pulled together different because it hardens the flux on his head and it's tons on our savings account.
[00:11:09] That kind of thing. He pulled together. Um, like your traditional bank account, but like supercharged with extra feature, right? Because you're getting on some of the tools you're getting to pray healthy APR. Um, but you're also getting that fun aspect where you have a chance to win a prize. So, uh, and like the late and says, you're, you're never losing that initial principle and pause it.
[00:11:34] You can continue that and you can increase your tickets and your. So it's totally upend than the traditional idea idea of a lottery where you're, and you're losing your, your deposit, you know? Yeah. Can you, can you talk a little bit about those tickets? Cause actually I don't, I don't recall that through my research.
[00:11:53] W how do those tickets function? So attacker a ticket is just represents a chance to win and the pool rate. So if you use a stable coin pills, um, as an example, you could die in. Um, when you deposit a one day or when you use dizzy, you get an return on one, one ticket, one chance to win. Um, and the protocol uses that ticket to inform the users chance.
[00:12:16] And you can, if you put the plus a hundred die, that would be a hundred tickets. And that would be up against all the other tickets from all the other users. Um, and the protocol is set select, and it depends on the pro the pool actually, because some of them are, you know, five prices per week or one price per day, you know, that that's, uh, adjustable, but, and yeah, the protocol uses that ticket to inform and insulation off the burner.
[00:12:41] So is it yeah, one ticket per deposit or one ticket per token that you have awesome. One ticket per token. So when you use, I can have, you know, many tokens. So you could increase your chances per se, based on the amount of tokens that you deposit. Absolutely. And, and that's what makes it Stevens, right?
[00:13:00] Because you can use it as just a traditional bank account has got that extra, um, aspect to it, but where you've got the chance to win, you can continue to add to it and you can continue to increase your chance. And the protocol will both tell you. Um, at the interface will tell you what your actual chance to win as much is different from traditional lotteries, like bulletin said, you don't know what your chance says, and you don't know if the, the winner was slightly fiddly and sealed on the blockchain and see how the, the, um, the protocol came first, the session with dislikes, what, whoever user or whatever ticket holder.
[00:13:37] Yeah. I mean, and that's thanks to that transparency of the blockchain. Right. So you're able to see that real time. Um, and it also sounds like there's some programmability, cause you were saying, you know, um, it depends on, on, on pool if you will. So how, how, how can in other words, can an individual or a Corp, could an organization, um, change or program different, uh, odds.
[00:14:01] How does that work? Yeah. So technically, technically yes, that's possible. Um, that hasn't happened. So that would be like something governance controls, right? So governance controls the prize pools. And so someone could propose an alteration to the, um, prize strategy contract, um, to say like, Hey, let's make it.
[00:14:19] So, you know, the odds are not based on the amount of money you deposit, but just based on something else. Um, so that's, that's technically possible, but it's not, it hasn't. Okay. So it's programmed at the, uh, protocol level and the changes to that can only be done through consensus, uh, through the, uh, through, through, through the protocol governance, which in this case it's the pool token, correct?
[00:14:45] Exactly. Yep. Yeah. That's I mean, the parameters, the primary is off the pills are all adjustable by governance. Okay. And geo, did you, did you want to add anything, anything to this or shall we continue? I think late Nicole introduced it beautifully. Uh, I think, you know, one thing I would add just about the no loss elements who had, I think, uh, it's a pull together in general is just a really good protocol for people who maybe might be like newer to the space or even have been in a while.
[00:15:18] And it's just such a simple way. Family or friends who are in crypto. We're not just to explain to them what's actually happening where, um, to actually understand these like five primitives of, Hey, I deposit this like dollar and everyone knows what a lottery is, and this thing gets lent out at these other protocols.
[00:15:38] And then that interest is what is used to, you know, reward the winners or getaway. And then the, the obviously, um, savings element of it and earning yield. It's such a beautiful, simple protocol that is easy for folks like Feifei super users and. Right. And actually talking about those OnRamps, uh, which again is on topic, uh, on yesterday's call when we were, uh, uh, you know, preparing for this event.
[00:16:09] McCall, I think you mentioned that this was your introduction to defy. Yeah. So my first foray into crypto and the 3m, especially it was way back in early 20, 19 as, and, you know, I called them a first Coinbase account and bought my first. And then I was looking at like, what can I, what can I use this for this 3m is supposed to be a smart contract platform, right?
[00:16:33] So where's all this smart contract. And it was, and summer around summer where I heard that they pulled together and I decided to try and use that and figure out how it works and try and make a deposit. And when I did that, and that was like an epiphany moment for me, that was like, that made me really understand, okay, we've got something here.
[00:16:52] This is. This is world potentially. What are we changing technology? Uh, the fact that me as just some random user can take full custody of my funds and do whatever I want with them. I can put them in this contract. I can have a chance to win in the price Stevens game. Um, and it's totally up to me to do that.
[00:17:12] So yeah, pulled together as an excellent teachable moment, I think, for anybody to really understand. Um, the theme and smart contracts are capable of. And it's actually the one example I use when I show people like, you know, I'm the crypto guy in my muscle, right? So I show them, pulled together to try and get them to understand what the value is here.
[00:17:34] And there's a lot of value. Certainly. I think that there, there are needs for creating tools that are simple to understand. Uh, especially for, you know, as, uh, new users, new crypto users, um, you know, the, the goal is to increase the adoption to everyone, uh, you know, to make defy, uh, you know, appealing and, and, and, and useful for everyone.
[00:18:00] And so I think that what pulled together is doing is fantastic because it's certainly meeting that need and, you know, hearing your story, Nicole to me, was inspiring. It there's something about someone who discovered or started their own journey through a protocol to be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that to me is the ultimate advocacy, right?
[00:18:24] Is individuals who come forward and say, uh, I, you know, I was curious, I was interested, I got into this. It, it meant something to me. I learned it. And now I am a part of its growth. I think that's super powerful. Yeah. And I mean, that's why, uh, I spent quite a bit of time just, you know, following the pull together, Dow, Dow does cards and discussions, and that's just through, you know, my own passion and belief in the power of the project and potentially go and where it can lead to.
[00:18:52] And so, yeah, that's, that's, that's why I'm here and doing this because I truly believe in the value that the protocol can actually offer it to anybody that wants to use it. Yeah. I mean, for anybody who's been around crypto, uh, or defy for any amount of. Uh, they know that really for any project to succeed.
[00:19:10] It's, it's the power of the community. So it's great to see that pulled together is empowering and giving, you know, community members, a platform to continue developing that protocol, uh, together. Really no pun intended. So do so, are there any, uh, you know, metrics here to kind of see how far the protocol has come from?
[00:19:32] Its beginnings. I know that there are in terms of deposits, there's growth in terms of the number of prizes, um, there's been growth, and then there's also certain goals that have been set by the community. Leighton, did you want to speak about, uh, to the. Yeah. I mean, I can just give some quick high-level context.
[00:19:50] Um, so I mean, high level, you know, a year ago at this time, we were, there was probably about a thousand dollars of prizes a week. Now there's about a hundred thousand dollars surprises a week. Um, in the last, uh, like five months, there's been over $4 million. It's been awarded by the protocol as well as over a million dollars.
[00:20:07] That's been retained by the protocol and the protocol and the protocol reserves. It's uh, yeah, so, so, so, so growth has been good. Um, but uh, our big goal is to get to a million dollars in, um, weekly in a, in a weekly prize to get to a million dollar, a weekly prize. And, um, that's sort of from, you know, from a future looking perspective, that's what we're working towards.
[00:20:31] And we have, we have, uh, you know, we do a lot of stuff we're working on that we think is going to make that possible and make that happen in the near future. But, uh, that's, that's sort of how, where we're at right now. Okay. Well, that's great to hear. Um, so before, before we close that, I think that there's a few things about the project that are interesting, and that I personally want to learn a little bit more of.
[00:20:54] I know that there is a, I guess, two different ways to use the protocol. And one of those is pools. And one of those as pods, can you help us understand what each of them does and how they're. Uh, yeah, so I can take this one. And I think the pills, the pills on the men, uh, the main, uh, function, uh, powerful together, right?
[00:21:19] That's where you deposit your funds. I'm yet another pill and you have your chances to win. And pods are kind of built on top of the pills. So our pod, as a way, for many, we, we think of it in terms of many small fish can combine their funds and all their tickets to become a better. So currently the moment might be, have you have a lot of pills, blah, blah, blah.
[00:21:40] I'll bail players. You know, they're, they're, they're putting their millions dollars up against, you know, the little fish with a few dollars and, and the pool and the, the little fish don't really have great chances of an on the run, but a pod does as, as a separate contract that you can join. Um, and they will combine all the tickets for all the individual individual users that join that.
[00:22:02] And the pool, the tool contracts treat the port contract as a single user, so that single use those tickets can all potentially when the price and the potable distribute that price fairly, um, amongst all those participants. So it's kind of like a pool with an appeal, like you think about like that that's about, but yeah, just to add on top of that.
[00:22:25] You know, th the interesting parts about pods and, you know, they were originally made to decrease the CS, um, associated with trying to deposit into a pool. Uh, so, you know, if the user, uh, tries to deposit whatever amount of money, the gas fees are reduced by about 70%. Um, but like one of the side effects of this type of mechanism is that this pod, uh, it's, it's almost great for a community.
[00:22:54] Um, like bank list and, uh, you know, some other ones I've used it like a Reddit community called lead finance. They already have a pod setup and like they have maybe hundreds of users at this point that are all deposited into pulled together, um, into the dye pool, through this pod. And when this pod wins, you know, uh, everyone wins at the same time.
[00:23:16] So it's like a celebration in a way when that pod wins for that community. So it's, it's like a fun. Not only to your gas costs, but also to, um, you know, celebrate with what the other people that you spend your time with. Yeah. And actually, I think that's a good point to touch on because I think, um, you know, through, through my research, uh, I found that there is something in terms of gas efficiency that pods enable that pools through.
[00:23:47] Yeah. So I believe the main reason for that is because when you're joining our pod, you're not directly joining the pill. You're not the pleasant and the funds and the compounds or the yield source. Cause you can get many associates, compound RV, et cetera. And you're not doing that complex Gus transaction.
[00:24:03] And so when you're joining the pods, you're not doing all that. What the pods does as magazines. There's a port, my concept of a port manager and they run that batch and. Themselves and that batches, all the users' transactions and to the pill. So there's only one deposit and to the yield social, instead of every user during the expensive deposit themselves, I think that's the primary reason why the gases.
[00:24:31] Yeah, no, that makes sense. And thanks for explaining that. So in terms of ROI, um, I know that one of the things that said is that there's better ROI in the long run with pool together. And one of the reasons for that is the reserve. Can we talk about the reserve and how that works, uh, and pulled together?
[00:24:52] Yeah. So the reserve is actually set by governance. Governance has control of the reserve rate on each of the bills. And it can be anywhere from zero to a hundred percent. Obviously you don't want a hundred percent because you want a price, a pendulum to come at the end of the price period. Um, but what happens with the reserves as each?
[00:25:09] Um, it is part of the bills that program, uh, programs to have a reserve, a portion of the price. Uh, let's say it by. Uh, we'll go back and to the, um, all go into the, back into the pool, that wouldn't be part of the price. So, and that, that reserve is not eligible to obviously get distributed to user. So we think of it as a perpetual growth mechanism where every, every week or every day, depending on when the pill is drawn and the reserve is constantly growing and constantly feeding and more value and to the pool and the praise that the tool can eventually.
[00:25:46] So, uh, yeah, I think our biggest, um, uh, biggest reserve right now is currently the USDC, uh, reserve. Um, and I think that has over over half a million, uh, use to see what the value in it. And that's just purely through, um, every week, you know, taking some of the prize away and putting it back in, serve to feed the protocol and feed the poor protocols growth.
[00:26:09] So it compounds. Yes. And just add, it's not eligible to win as well. So it's really just has one purpose. It's just contributing to increasing the price. That's actually very interesting. And I think, uh, at least not something that is, uh, common and, and defy in terms of holding back a piece of, uh, of, of, I guess, that reward for, um, I guess really to kind of support the mechanism of rewarding people into the.
[00:26:41] Yeah. So it's purveyance to steal and belly, right? Like, let's say for some reason everybody removes all their deposits from, uh, the pill. Well, there's going to be a floor to that, right? Because the reserve is always still going to be there and the reserve is still an interest. So there will always still be a price, um, or some capital to generate.
[00:27:01] And first in generally a price because the reserve exists. Um, and that's why that's, that's what enables the sustainability of the protocol. And. There will always still be users and the pill because there is always a prizes generated and the users will be incentivized to join the pool and collect that price.
[00:27:19] Well, it's cool too, because it really just through that, through that reserve, you're also increasing the yield. Uh, that's getting rewarded, uh, you know, whatever the distribution rate is, you know, or the, or the. Well, yeah, you could look at it like that because the price is part of the yield of the, uh, pill.
[00:27:38] Right? So yeah, the it's going to be increased by some percentage dependent on your chance to win the pill. So where does the pool token fit in all of this? Uh, we talked about it being the governance token, but how do, uh, participants in the protocol get their hands on the pool? It was initially distributed, um, early this year to, um, users of the protocol.
[00:28:01] So, so like McCall, um, myself included. I mean, I I've used it over the past couple of years and I was airdropped, um, pool, uh, to be part of governance and people who even participated in like snapshot both even prior to, um, Being distributed, uh, was also, uh, given pool. But these days, I mean, it's just publicly accessible on any decks.
[00:28:27] You've swapped and whatnot. Um, and yeah, and there's with the, with the token, um, there's also like, which hasn't been mentioned if you are an LP. I mean, I don't think many people know about it because the yield is pretty high. Uh, the LP yields, uh, you know, is. So, you know, that's another, like use of the token, uh, that I guess isn't being used enough.
[00:28:53] Yeah. There's a, there's actually an ether pool LP on possession on, um, Unisource V2. Um, and like do say as, as I guess the prayer ridiculous APR for what that is. And I can start a pill to be one of the more high quality tokens in the space, because as a protocol that is generally in reserves, it's called sustainability.
[00:29:11] And so there will always be a price floor to that. And, and that's not the only way you can earn tokens. And most of the, the flagship pools on the main site, um, to have a concept of a project and that's what pervades your EPR. So the di equals the highest, have some of the highest APRs because the governance has decided that we want to promote those pills as much as possible.
[00:29:37] The USDC pool is the one of the ones that you want to try and push to reach that $1 million price and the future. So governance has set aside some of its treasury funds and every, every day or every block, even some of that goal has to the posers and the bills. Um, and that's one of the ways that we can end at some value back from the protocol that is not just the price of.
[00:30:02] So that's why, yeah. That's why he has no loss praised Stevens, right. Because you've got no loss, but explained that prizes of the praise. Um, but you've also got the savings and with savings games, you expect some sort of APR or some sort of, you know, return, right. And that's fair. The pill jet comes in and you're an errand and something bad for you.
[00:30:22] Yeah. So it sounds like there are several things at play here. One of them obviously is just put your, you know, put your money on, on this protocol and you're saving money. The other is there's an opportunity to, uh, win a prize. Uh, and maybe we can talk a little bit about how that distribution or how, how you know, how that works, but also there is pool for your participation.
[00:30:43] You're in a little bit of pool, uh, EV every time there's a prize district. Yeah. So as said, incentivizing people to use the protocol and potentially become part of the governance process as well. Right. Um, by an apple token and Steph, if you're a user of the protocol, hopefully you're incentivized to, you know, make sure the protocol is operating as efficiently as possible and participate in the discussions.
[00:31:05] Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, I think that's the, that's the main vehicle for community engagement. Uh, Is, you know, this community participation through governance. And so enabling the users of the platform who are the ones that, uh, would like to see us succeed based on their participation, enabling them a way to gain access to that governance governance, excuse me, uh, by, uh, like you said, dripping this pool token, um, on, on a regular basis.
[00:31:35] Um, great. So I guess one last thing is in terms of pool together being multi chain, uh, can you talk a little bit about that in terms of, you know, what, what blockchains is currently on, uh, how that works in terms of pooling together, uh, you know, these, these, uh, deposits and distributed rewards across blockchains.
[00:31:58] Yeah. So, so right now we'll get us primarily on, um, on a serial and polygon. And there is also deployment of Binance smart chain. Um, that's not, uh, has hasn't really been officially announced, but it is, it is done. So primarily just the theorem and polygon. Um, but you bring up an interesting point because right now, basically the way it works is like each prize pool on each chain is sort of its own entity.
[00:32:21] Right? So we have like a, you know, a USDA, TT prize pool on polygon that has like a thousand dollar daily prize. And then we have like a USBC prize pool on a theory of that has like a $50,000 weekly prize. So they're all day. And, um, what's been, what's been being worked on and what will be a big part of the pool together before, which is coming soon is, uh, essentially, uh, bridging all those together.
[00:32:43] So what, what that means is there will be one prize pool that simultaneously exists on multiple chains. So you can join on polygon. You can join an Ethereum, you can join on, um, even like, uh, like optimistic or Arbitron. Um, and you will, oh, no matter what changes. You'll have the same chance to win one massive prize.
[00:33:04] That's distributed across all the chains. And so, um, that's a little sneak peek on the future, and we're really excited about, about that. That's it? I hope you enjoyed this conversation. If you'd like to learn more about pulling together, please go to pool together.com and on Twitter at pool together.
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